Do we need to make our schools safer in response to what happened in Connecticut? (rental car, rental)

[sparrowmint]

Originally Posted by Hopes

The only policy they mention is tightening up the chance of mentally ill people obtaining guns. Well, this shooting is proof that mentally ill don't need to purchase guns in order to have access to guns. It's just not going to be good enough.

I don't think we'll see any improvements regarding mental health when it's badly needed on so many levels, not just for violence.

I'm waiting to see how things completely shake out in terms of the investigators, but so far it's looking like the mother should have been responsible enough not to have weapons in her home with a kid like that. One of the problems with mental health reform, beyond putting the money into hospitals, social services, whatever, is that people often have blind spots towards their kids, their family, whatever. I hesitate because so much reported stuff has been SO wrong so far, but there are details like, she felt overwhelmed and yet didn't join local support groups or seek out resources that her acquaintances and such specifically recommended to her. We'll see if that turns out to be true. In this very specific instance, these people were rich enough to have access to whatever they wanted, and it doesn't look like they sought out even the beginning steps of help. Not that federal or even state policies should be designed around a very specific set of circumstances.

I do agree that it's disturbing that mental health reform is only ever discussed in the wake of such things, and even then nothing is done. There are literally tens of millions of people diagnosed with various disorders and mental illnesses, many of whom who lack access to the resources they need (not even counting those who have never been diagnosed with anything). Even a high percentage of insured people lack the resources they need because insurance often might cover the psychiatric meds through an MD, but don't cover access to qualified psychiatrists (or psychologists), among other things. People are often misdiagnosed, driven to suicide, and other things. Literally millions are suffering to various degrees from these related issues. Mental health reform isn't discussed for its own sake, for the good of the people suffering and for their families... it's only somewhat discussed in the context of how third parties are sometimes affected. Though I would guess that's all part of the overall stigma surrounding mental illness. It's one vicious cycle.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by EveKendall

I think this terrible situation has put a spotlight on two issues: our poor mental health system and our obsession with guns.
Closing down the state psychiatric hospital system, while it seemed 'humane' on the surface, was a big problem in the US. There are many people who need a high level of round the clock care. I believe that most state hospitals were good facilities although many people think they were all like "One Flew Over the Cuckcoo's Nest".
You can say guns aren't a problem, but the same day as the Connecticut shooting, a man stabbed 22 children and an adult in a school in China. There were no fatalites.

You are putting the cart before the horse in regards to mental health. There is no evidence that the shooter or his family attempted to access the mental health system for him, any mental health system. We can't have some sort of "mental health police" out there to select people who need mental health services and haul them off for care. A person has to be a danger to him/herself or others to be involuntarily committed, and that is as it should be. Closing the state hospitals has nothing to do with someone presenting for mental health care, or not.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by sparrowmint

I do agree that it's disturbing that mental health reform is only ever discussed in the wake of such things, and even then nothing is done. There are literally tens of millions of people diagnosed with various disorders and mental illnesses, many of whom who lack access to the resources they need (not even counting those who have never been diagnosed with anything). Even a high percentage of insured people lack the resources they need because insurance often might cover the psychiatric meds through an MD, but don't cover access to qualified psychiatrists (or psychologists), among other things. People are often misdiagnosed, driven to suicide, and other things. Literally millions are suffering to various degrees from these related issues. Mental health reform isn't discussed for its own sake, for the good of the people suffering and for their families... it's only somewhat discussed in the context of how third parties are sometimes affected. Though I would guess that's all part of the overall stigma surrounding mental illness. It's one vicious cycle.

And parnets have a difficult time getting treatment for their children. In Pennsylvania, 13 year olds are allowed ot refuse medical and mental health treatment. Doctors inform them of their rights when a parent take them for treatment. It's insane itself. You could have all the insurance and money in the world and not find treatment for an unwilling minor in Pennsylvania. The only exception is if there is illegal drug use, and the parent has to petition the court to get permission to put an unwilling minor into rehab. Sometimes illegal drug use is a saving grace for parents who were previously trying to get treatment for mental illness because then the parents can get them into duel treatment programs which treat for addiction and mental health. Some parents with money fly their children to other states where children don't have right to refuse treatment. It's just a disaster.

[sparrowmint]

Originally Posted by Hopes

And parnets have a difficult time getting treatment for their children. In Pennsylvania, 13 year olds are allowed ot refuse medical and mental health treatment. Doctors inform them of their rights when a parent take them for treatment. It's insane itself. You could have all the insurance and money in the world and not find treatment for an unwilling minor in Pennsylvania. The only exception is if there is illegal drug use, and the parent has to petition the court to get permission to put an unwilling minor into rehab. Sometimes illegal drug use is a saving grace for parents who were previously trying to get treatment for mental illness because then the parents can get them into duel treatment programs which treat for addiction and mental health. Some parents with money fly their children to other states where children don't have right to refuse treatment. It's just a disaster.

Yeah, Seung-Hui Cho is the poster boy for many of these related issues, and yet the only changes made were some in regards to guns. He was even such a danger that the courts dealt with him at one point. But a combination of privacy laws, limited powers, inability or refusal to actually follow up on whether he did what the court ordered, and other things combined to create a disaster. Nothing changes though.

And let's note that Cho used two guns that aren't on any assault weapons ban list. With standard size magazines.

[KrazeeKrewe]

Sign The Arm The Teachers Petition! 7,269 signed so far.

The state of Utah has always allowed teachers to carry guns in class & has never had an incident. Why can't we all have that?

Texas School District Will Let Teachers Carry Guns

[Hopes]

That's not true about Israel.

Ma'alot massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1974. 115 people, of which 105 were children, were taken hostage. 3 adults and 20 children were murdered. 68 injured.

Then there is this one:

Mercaz HaRav massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

8 students killed, 11 wounded.

That was just recent in 2008.

Should I continue?

[Garvdog]

Originally Posted by KrazeeKrewe

Sign The Arm The Teachers Petition! 7,269 signed so far.

The state of Utah has always allowed teachers to carry guns in class & has never had an incident. Why can't we all have that?

Texas School District Will Let Teachers Carry Guns

I really hope this post was meant as a joke- otherwise I pity you for your lack of sanity and intelligence.

[pit2atl]

Originally Posted by KrazeeKrewe

Sign The Arm The Teachers Petition! 7,269 signed so far.

The state of Utah has always allowed teachers to carry guns in class & has never had an incident. Why can't we all have that?

Texas School District Will Let Teachers Carry Guns

What happens when a kid steal the gun out of the teachers desk and shoots himself.

[EveKendall]

Originally Posted by Katiana

You are putting the cart before the horse in regards to mental health. There is no evidence that the shooter or his family attempted to access the mental health system for him, any mental health system. We can't have some sort of "mental health police" out there to select people who need mental health services and haul them off for care. A person has to be a danger to him/herself or others to be involuntarily committed, and that is as it should be. Closing the state hospitals has nothing to do with someone presenting for mental health care, or not.

Seriously? It is pretty undeniable he had some kind of mental health problem. Whether care was sought or not is almost irrelevent--the whole point is that we do not have a decent mentla health system in this country to access.
Why do you need some kind of proof that he sought psychiatric care (I have seen multiple posts from you on this topic)? Do you really think there is any doubt he had a problem? No one does something like this without some kind of warning sign ahead of time.
And who is talking about 'mental health police'? Not me.

[sparrowmint]

Originally Posted by KrazeeKrewe

The state of Utah has always allowed teachers to carry guns in class & has never had an incident. Why can't we all have that?

http://i.imgur.com/40KLQ.jpg