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Old 03-15-2013, 11:36 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 108,040,030 times
Reputation: 30721

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I discovered that I'm very politically incorrect. To be honest, the more I think about it, I just might be proud of it.

I was at a bar. In Vermont. I don't frequent bars. I happen to be friends with people at this particular bar. You might find that surprising since Vermonters can be pretty stand-offish people. But my friends are all transplants from other places. There's a reserved undercurrent of strife in Vermont. The Vermonters vs. the Flatlanders. Flatlander is a derogatory term Vermonters use for outsiders. Remember that, outsiders is important for my defense which I will call my "tolerant bubble" theory.

I'll admit, even though I don't drink, I was probably a bit obnoxious for anyone who didn't know me. I was overly talkative because I hadn't seen my friends in a month. I had lots of catching up to do.

It started with telling them that I learned the hard way you can't talk on a cell phone while driving in New York state. The most fascinating about this discovery is it's apparently considered a bigger infraction than going 80mph and driving on an expired license. That's right. I was talking on my cell phone while driving 80mph with an expired drivers license, and I only got a ticket for talking on my cell phone. I'm not complaining.

Of course, since I was talking about my journey through New York, I had to elaborate on how I had to get a hotel room in Jamestown (of all places) because the weather got bad due to sudden lake effect snow, and I wasn't going to drive through the Indian Reservation. I know, it's pathetic that I got a hotel room after only 3 hours of driving from Pittsburgh. Back to the reservation. I started a thread in the New York forum about driving through it.

//www.city-data.com/forum/new-y...-such-bad.html

In that thread, I learned why that stretch of road is so bad. There is a treaty fight between the Seneca Iroquois Nation and New York State. It's all New York's fault. The state broke the treaty. The Indians put their money in escrow while it's being fought in court. It's a court battle, but I call it a war. When you drive through there, you'll feel like you're in a war zone. Since the Indians put their money in escrow, the state isn't maintaining the section of interstate that goes through the reservation. The road is rough. Major potholes and patches. Worse than the PA turnpike has ever been. The steering wheel shakes. It's very hard to keep the car on the road at high speeds. The worse part is that the state doesn't plow or salt that stretch of interstate during snow storms. Traffic slows to 20mph. It takes hours to go the 50 mile stretch. I've witnessed cars spinning around 3 or 4 times before going off the road. At the bar, I shared all of this to explain why I decided to get a hotel room in Jamestown after I only drove for 3 hours from Pittsburgh.

Little did I know that the term "Indian" is politically incorrect when talking about nations and reservations and treaties and interstates and snow storms. Well, I vaguely remember learning a long time ago about Native Americans being a preferred term. How many Indians, err Native Americans, do we run into in Pittsburgh anyway? The few that are here don't mention it or proudly call themselves Indians. Of course, there could be some that prefer Native American, I would suppose. My point is that our Pittsburgh Bubble is somewhat out of touch with the Indians/Native Americans. At least my personal bubble is, but that doesn't mean that I have any malicious feelings about Native Americans.

At this point, I'm still in my bubble, blissfully unaware of my infraction. I probably would have stayed in my bubble if the topic hadn't turned to the local St. Patrick's Day parade. Apparently, it's pathetically small. I wouldn't know first hand since I'm already back in Pittsburgh. I took their word for it, which inspired me to wonder if the area had a small Irish population. I wondered out loud in the form of a question about the ethnicity of the region, which was met with a joke French Canadian. (They're being invaded by French Canadians and they don't like it.) I shared I was Irish. A little *******'s sweet girlfriend excitedly piped in that she was Irish too. The little local ******* mumbled "Indian" and his girlfriend squealed with delight, asking, "Really?!??!" to which he whispered in her ear what I later figured out must have been how politically incorrect the term Indian is.

Since I'm the dizzy blonde Copanut says I am, this all went over my head, and I asked if there was a heavy German influence in the population. Shock. Horror. Mouths dropped. It seemed like an innocent question. I guess if you start off with Indians and later use the words ethnic and ethnicity, German suddenly isn't an innocent question. But consider why I asked. Since it's a ski region, many of the resorts, motels and hotels have German or Swiss names. The signage is distinctly German looking too. I explained my reason for asking, just as I explained here. The response was "We're trying to get away from that." Away from what? I didn't ask that out loud because I vaguely recall someone telling me a long time ago about Nazi money establishing resorts in Vermont. False rumor, I was sure. But based on that reaction, is it? Hmmmm......

Even though I suddenly got a brain and kept my mouth shut, this local ******* turned to me and asked, "How new are you here?" With utter distain in his voice, I might add. He thought I was a newcomer! That's how newcomers aka flatlanders are treated. I clearly wasn't assimilating quickly enough! He started stuttering and tripping all over himself when the owner informed him that I was a guest, a very dear and valued guest, who was also a friend who was like family. I wanted to pretend that I hadn't noticed that I was insulted. But I couldn't. I asked, "Now that we have that established, what difference would it have made if I were a recent transplant?" He stuttered again, explaining my closeness to everyone and the way I was treated when the food arrived lead him to believe that I lived there. He and his super sweet girlfriend left shortly after wishing me well and a safe trip and all sorts of nice things.

My friends apologized for his rudeness. I waved my hand and told them I thought it was funny. I told them that Pittsburghers embrace ethnicity. Everyone is Italian or Irish or this or that. We have a huge St. Patrick's Day Parade. Etc. etc. What's wrong with ethnic pride? Being proud of one's own heritage doesn't automatically equate to ethnocentrism. It's possible to embrace who you are while understanding others. Not everyone is perfect. It's possible to be open minded and accepting of others without knowing about Indians, especially if Indians aren't really an issue close to home.

On my long ride home, I started thinking of bubbles. I have friends with different bubbles, like a former friend from California who is uber politically correct but the most racist person I've ever met. Once I got to know her well enough to realize this, I ex-friended her. That was long before facebook, btw. If political correctness means everyone is the same, I'm not sure I like that idea. And isn't this *******, who wants everyone to assimilate to the Vermont bubble, a hypocrite? After all, I'm the one who ventured out of my bubble and left Pittsburgh. He was still in his bubble sitting on a bar stool in Vermont, hating outsiders even though the state's main economy relies upon outsiders.

I wouldn't want to live in Vermont where everyone is the same and those who aren't are looked down upon. Granted, I'm sure Vermonters are equally disgusted by the idea of living in uncouth Pittsburgh. The reality is all people have bubbles. People have regional bubbles, ethnic bubbles, political bubbles, religious bubbles, family bubbles, personal bubbles. In essence, we are bubbles. We prefer our bubbles.

People say that Pittsburghers rarely leave the region, as if that's a bad thing. Compared to bubbles where everyone is expected to conform to oneness, the Pittsburgh Bubble seems to be a more tolerant bubble.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:56 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 108,040,030 times
Reputation: 30721
Goodness. ******* is a bad word here?

Maybe it's politically incorrect too!

But it's in the dictionary!

******* - definition of ******* by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:06 AM
 
Location: Due North of Potemkin City Limits
1,237 posts, read 1,948,979 times
Reputation: 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
I have friends with different bubbles, like a former friend from California who is uber politically correct but the most racist person I've ever met. Once I got to know her well enough to realize this, I ex-friended her. That was long before facebook, btw.
If this friend lived in the Pittsburgh area, there's a very good chance I know her too. Did she kinda look like Darline from Rosanne?
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Old 03-16-2013, 05:59 AM
 
Location: Currently living in Reddit
5,652 posts, read 6,987,041 times
Reputation: 7323
While northern New Englanders typically take an attitude of self-sufficiency and government driven by localities rather than state/feds, I think they'd jump at the opportunity to get federal funding for a fence to keep out the Quebecois :-)

As a kid we used to go on vacation to NH (Franconia Notch) a lot, with day trips to Old Orchard Beach in Maine, which over time, became the official provincial beach of Quebec. Last time I was there in the early 90s, it was the exception to hear a conversation in English. The Mainers have basically disowned the place and it was a total dump.

As to the stuff on First Nations people and Germans, never really heard of sensitivities to specific ethnicities from native Vermonters. Flatlanders, sure - Vermonters don't like 'em and never have. They can't do anything on their own, complain all the time and bring in chain businesses and more traffic. Bennington being the most egregious example.

I'll add that in CT/RI/MA, there's less a reaction to "Indian". Tribal peoples prefer to be acknowledged by their tribal association (Pequot, Mohegan, etc.) but they'll answer to "Indian" as most of the casino-related media still uses that term. Maybe it's just that they've got money while the Native Americans from VT/NH/ME don't.

Interesting tidbit about the NY highway maintenance. I rarely drive that route, but good to know its to be avoided.
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:20 AM
 
5,894 posts, read 6,881,857 times
Reputation: 4107
If you look at maps of various indian reservations around the country, western pa is one of the few areas that doesn't have any anywhere near them (at least of areas formally populated by indians) thus our ancestors were either adept at killing them off/ driving them out, or they assimilated into society here more.
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:32 AM
 
3,463 posts, read 5,660,115 times
Reputation: 7218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
I discovered that I'm very politically incorrect. To be honest, the more I think about it, I just might be proud of it.

I was at a bar. In Vermont. I don't frequent bars. I happen to be friends with people at this particular bar. You might find that surprising since Vermonters can be pretty stand-offish people. But my friends are all transplants from other places. There's a reserved undercurrent of strife in Vermont. The Vermonters vs. the Flatlanders. Flatlander is a derogatory term Vermonters use for outsiders. Remember that, outsiders is important for my defense which I will call my "tolerant bubble" theory.

I usually don't read stuff this long, but Im glad I read this one as someone who has lived in both Pittsburgh and Vermont for a few years -- yins have Vermonters pegged
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
14,353 posts, read 17,027,384 times
Reputation: 12411
Quote:
Originally Posted by UKyank View Post
If you look at maps of various indian reservations around the country, western pa is one of the few areas that doesn't have any anywhere near them (at least of areas formally populated by indians) thus our ancestors were either adept at killing them off/ driving them out, or they assimilated into society here more.
Indians were basically entirely driven out of western Pennsylvania and into Ohio and Canada in the second half 18th century. It's kind of ironic, because in the first half, Pennsylvania was known among the 13 colonies for having the best Indian-settler relations.

Warren County had the last major settlement of Indians, the Seneca descendants of the tribe of Chief Cornplanter, who originally had land along the Allegheny. It survived until 1959, when a dam was built on the Allegheny, and the government paid to relocate the local inhabitants affected, which included all of the Seneca.
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:03 AM
 
1,075 posts, read 1,692,965 times
Reputation: 1131
Assuming that you were in a ski/resort area, one must consider that year-rounders always have a palpable level of contempt for tourists. Everywhere that relies heavily on tourism has a love-hate relationship with the tourists.
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:38 AM
 
Location: About 10 miles north of Pittsburgh International
2,458 posts, read 4,203,610 times
Reputation: 2374
Quote:
Flatlander is a derogatory term Vermonters use for outsiders.
That would make it (and by extension, them), politically incorrect then, wouldn't it?

Last edited by ditchdigger; 03-16-2013 at 07:46 AM.. Reason: added the "by extension" thought
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:54 AM
 
1,051 posts, read 2,611,952 times
Reputation: 638
Yes it was politically incorrect. The rules have nothing to do with our feelings since no one is in a position to determine how other people should feel about our comments. There are dinner table rules, close friends rules and mixed company rules. The mixed company rules are

Never mention race
Never mention ethnicity
Never mention gender stereotypes (feign shock that women aren't offensive linemen)
Never mention sexual orientation

Most successful people follow these rules because they realize that there are Billions of stupid social rules we follow everyday. Small brained people throw tantrums, because apparently they believe there is some logic (in their own little heads) to this stuff.. which there isn't.

BTW make sure you tip at least 15% and say please and thank you at least 75 times to the bartender
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