Pittsburgh's "popularity" a problem? (York, Sharon: 2014, theater, public school)

[pman]

Originally Posted by sealie

Don't be silly. The only things the burbs have to offer is the Olive Garden, the Best Buy, the late-night food and the total lack of college student jaywalkers. Who needs that?

who could pass up olive garden, eat n park, and the best buy?

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

^ Edgewater at Oakmont

THIS is what our suburbs need more of.


What do our suburbs NOT need more of?

Actually, the drawings of "Edgewater" look pretty much like the picture you posted of wherever.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by pman

who could pass up olive garden, eat n park, and the best buy?

I do it every day driving on McKnightmare road.

[LIRefugee]

If one has a hankering for some Eat'N'Park grub, one doesn't have to leave the city no matter the time of day.

What bugs me the most about typical suburban development is the tendency to create these housing developments with only one or two ways to enter a vast residential tract, thereby creating a choke point for traffic at that entrance and forcing all traffic onto whatever stem road it leads too. It leads to congestion and wasted time and gas. Corporate campuses are similar, and I once saw someone die at work, possibly because the one and only way into the complex involved going a couple miles out of way. There's no way to know if the little extra bit of time would have saved his life, but the bit of time lost driving to and through the single entrance couldn't have helped.

[Mr. Mon]

Originally Posted by eschaton

No I understand.

All city boosters may seem alike, but really, the focus of my "urbanism" is trying to convince people who love the city and hate the suburbs that they don't need to leave the city and suffer for the sake of their kids. Someone who likes suburban life ain't ever gonna enjoy 80% of the city (and find the last 20% an inferior model of the real thing).

The only reason people (well my peers anyway) who love city living but are contemplating leaving for the inner suburbs is schools. I know more than one family who's children are on multiple waiting lists for magnet programs and are paying for private school while they wait. They've had it and are contemplating taking off to Mt. Lebo or Aspinwall. For people without the financial means for private school the quality of the built environment they live in becomes secondery to the perceived quality of schools.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Mr. Mon

The only reason people (well my peers anyway) who love city living but are contemplating leaving for the inner suburbs is schools. I know more than one family who's children are on multiple waiting lists for magnet programs and are paying for private school while they wait. They've had it and are contemplating taking off to Mt. Lebo or Aspinwall. For people without the financial means for private school the quality of the built environment they live in becomes secondary to the perceived quality of schools.

Right. But the emphasis here is perceived. We can argue about the degree, but it's clear due to the demographically split PSSA scores that after accounting for PPS being over 50% black in enrollment (and many of the white students being lower-income as well), there's no significant difference.

Regardless, there are neighborhood school options out there - and not only in the Lower East End. Brookline K-8 has been getting a better reputation recently, but speaking at least personally, over half of the schools in Pittsburgh south of the Mon are pretty much identical (again, after counting for more diverse demographics) to the middle class districts just outside the city in the region, like Keystone Oaks, Baldwin-Whitehall, and Brentwood. Obviously this isn't the same as Mount Lebanon or Fox Chapel Area (only the magnets and the lower East End schools hit this), but then again, these neighborhoods are lower-middle class, not upper-middle class. And while I think going to a very bad school hurts your kids to some degree, going to an average versus top school won't make much of a difference if the parents themselves are smart.

[Devout Urbanist]

Originally Posted by Mr. Mon

For people without the financial means for private school the quality of the built environment they live in becomes secondery to the perceived quality of schools.

You encounter this argument in every major city from a certain segment of the population and I have concluded that these people usually have unrealistic expectations about the public school system in American cities or a very strange belief (to me at least) that teachers are the only ones responsible for educating youth. A kid at a lackluster city school with two parents who take an active interest in his or her education is probably better off than a kid whose parents find it sufficient to simply "send" their kid to a school in the suburbs.

[Lobick]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Right. But the emphasis here is perceived. We can argue about the degree, but it's clear due to the demographically split PSSA scores that after accounting for PPS being over 50% black in enrollment (and many of the white students being lower-income as well), there's no significant difference.

Regardless, there are neighborhood school options out there - and not only in the Lower East End. Brookline K-8 has been getting a better reputation recently, but speaking at least personally, over half of the schools in Pittsburgh south of the Mon are pretty much identical (again, after counting for more diverse demographics) to the middle class districts just outside the city in the region, like Keystone Oaks, Baldwin-Whitehall, and Brentwood. Obviously this isn't the same as Mount Lebanon or Fox Chapel Area (only the magnets and the lower East End schools hit this), but then again, these neighborhoods are lower-middle class, not upper-middle class. And while I think going to a very bad school hurts your kids to some degree, going to an average versus top school won't make much of a difference if the parents themselves are smart.

This, of course, is exactly correct.

Preach on eschaton...that's the only way to save the souls of some of these poor bastards, stuck living where they'd rather not...all for the sake of their kids, built upon erroneous assumptions. Got to break through the "group think" somehow. We all must do our part.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by LIRefugee

If one has a hankering for some Eat'N'Park grub, one doesn't have to leave the city no matter the time of day.

Aren't there only three Eat 'N Parks in city limits? Murray Ave, Banksville Ave, and the Waterworks (if that one even counts). I like Eat 'N Parks, but they've never struck me as a "city" thing.

[LIRefugee]

Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday

Aren't there only three Eat 'N Parks in city limits? Murray Ave, Banksville Ave, and the Waterworks (if that one even counts). I like Eat 'N Parks, but they've never struck me as a "city" thing.

They're not a "city" thing perhaps, but they are there. I've gone to the Squirrel Hill location more than a few times. It doesn't really stick out as a suburban element misplaced in the city like that East Liberty McDonald's does, plus it's open 24 hours, which can be mighty convenient.