Will Oakland always be a pit? (Pittsburgh, Swissvale: apartments, leases, crime)

[eschaton]

I've lived here for close to a decade. In the time I've lived here I've seen so many neighborhoods get better. But Oakland seems unchanged, or if anything, like it's getting worse. Not in terms of safety I mean, but in terms of being somewhere that anyone who was not a student would want to be. We occasionally go to the Carnegie museums of course. Very rarely we'll go to eat somewhere on Craig, but as the restaurant scene has improved elsewhere, there's been less reason to go. I'm mostly out of the bar phase of my life, but I'm always surprised that Oakland has no nightlife to speak of - college towns always have bar scenes, even if most undergrads can't drink legally. I think the Upstage might have really been the last thing of note there. We have random doctors appointments and trips to Magee for the midwife that pull us to Oakland, but we'd never go there willingly for the most part.

But mostly, I'm shocked at how all virtually all of Oakland remains a dump.

West Oakland is essentially the Hill District (even discounting places like Omega Terrace, which aren't really even near Oakland), and has lots of vacant lots and crime issues. It's actually not a very student-heavy area. I'm always surprised it hasn't had any interest as a place for employees of Carlow and Magee.

South Oakland is a student slum which seems to be literally falling apart. This is in some ways a travesty, not only because it's a walkable neighborhood, but because so many of the buildings are late-period brick Victorians which were quite nice to begin with. Oakland Square could have been a fantastic little residential area. Over half of the houses have been remuddled to the point of being barely recognizable.

Although I know there are long-term plans for the "Oakland Portal" area, and the apartment building which went up on 5th is a great start, I'm always shocked at how much of the land around Boulevard of the Allies is wasted on vacant lots and decaying, abandoned industrial buildings. I find it hard to believe that the area has remained so dis-invested for so long.

North Oakland is of course a bit more mixed. Schenley Farms is a nice little enclave, and the quality of the apartments to the west of there is generally higher. But it's always confused me why the main commercial area (Center/Craig intersection, more or less) is so ghetto looking. There are thousands of grad students and young professionals in the residential towers within four blocks of that intersection, and besides one fairly nice Indian restaurant, there isn't crap there. A block further north, it turns into an abandoned industrial wasteland.

I know Oakland has a master plan to try and deal with these issues. The question I have is, will it work? I don't see any reason why our main university neighborhood should look like a giant pile of sh*t. Last year I was in Cleveland, and University Circle, while not as impressive as Oakland in terms of density, blows the pants off of us in terms of having new investment in residential and commercial offerings which caters to people at all ages. Hell, given Pitt students scatter across the entire East End now, it seems like even the students don't want to live in our "student ghetto" any longer. I'm not sure what the best path forward is, but something should change.

[Moby Hick]

Were you out walking this morning or last night? It was especially bad because of it being the last trash collection before the ending of most student leases.

[MathmanMathman]

Oakland will always be a Pitt.

[fleetiebelle]

I think as long as Oakland caters to students, who are transient and don't really have a stake in the neighborhood, it's never going to be a glistening jewel of a place.

[Hopes]

Oakland has always been disgusting. That's never going to change.

Property owners will never be motivated to change that because students will pay top dollar for dumps.

[Pitt Chick]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I've lived here for close to a decade. In the time I've lived here I've seen so many neighborhoods get better. But Oakland seems unchanged, or if anything, like it's getting worse.

Worse?
It is a million times better than it was in the 70s when I was there!

[Moby Hick]

The way they're tearing down the building that burned on Zulema Street isn't helping. They seem to be conducting an experiment to see how much brick you can hold back with a chain link fence. That fire was over three months ago.

[grep]

I'm going to think about your bigger question before I reply to that, but I'd like to go ahead and make a few quick comments:

Originally Posted by eschaton

I'm mostly out of the bar phase of my life, but I'm always surprised that Oakland has no nightlife to speak of - college towns always have bar scenes, even if most undergrads can't drink legally. I think the Upstage might have really been the last thing of note there.

There is a lot of nightlife in Oakland during the fall and spring semesters at Pitt! Things really slow down during the summer, exam periods, and winter break, and like the rest of the city things are much more muted during the coldest months. Bars like Peter's, Hemingway's (Hem's), Garage Door (G-door), Pittsburgh Cafe (P-caf) and others are routinely packed on weekend nights. Half-price food after 11pm at Fuel and Fuddle is swamped Thur-Sat nights: if you only show up 10 minutes early to put your name on the list, you can easily wait an hour to get seated (I've been there many times!) Places like Mad Mex are so loud that it can be uncomfortable trying to eat a meal and have a conversation. Antoon's, Sorrento's, and McDonalds also get pretty hoppin' late at night, esp thur-sat.

But most of the nightlife is in houseparties, which naturally sort of excludes outsiders. This is because so many students are under 21; you're guaranteed to see your friends and their friends (great way to network); it's cheaper to drink at home (students are poor); buying a keg and throwing a big party with a charge at the door can actually net a fair amount of money for the organizers; and so many students live in Oakland that it is really easy for everyone to convene at an amenable abode. Lots of houseparties also feature "my friend's band" or "that DJ that joe knows".

Originally Posted by eschaton

But it's always confused me why the main commercial area (Center/Craig intersection, more or less) is so ghetto looking. There are thousands of grad students and young professionals in the residential towers within four blocks of that intersection, and besides one fairly nice Indian restaurant, there isn't crap there. A block further north, it turns into an abandoned industrial wasteland.

This has always been confusing to me too, but I think it's because there are a lot of buses that run up and down Center. The Hill doesn't have a lot of entertainment options, so I think a lot of residents from the hill take the bus down to places like Mitchell's and Logan's that don't exactly attract the CMU grad student crowd. I think a lot of them either go to Shadyside or Oakland proper. And as far as going north, there's absolutely no foot traffic from that direction.

[ryanm3685]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I know Oakland has a master plan to try and deal with these issues. The question I have is, will it work? I don't see any reason why our main university neighborhood should look like a giant pile of sh*t.

Hell, given Pitt students scatter across the entire East End now, it seems like even the students don't want to live in our "student ghetto" any longer. I'm not sure what the best path forward is, but something should change.

Yeah, certain streets are disgusting, with litter on the ground and whatnot. Just because you're transient doesn't mean you have to be a total slob

I attend the University of Pittsburgh, and based on the people whom I ask, it seems 75-85% live in Oakland. It's hard to subdivide, although I know no one in West Oakland, the majority in Central Oakland (between Fifth and Boulevard), and a decent amount in South Oakland (below Boulevard). I was actually surprised to find that South Oakland doesn't mainly consist of students:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

South Oakland is referred to by some as being an example of a student ghetto, but in fact, only 36.9% of its population is between the ages of 18 and 24, compared to Central Oakland's figure of 74.1%.[3] This discrepancy is largely due to the fact mentioned above that the area between Forbes Avenue and the Boulevard of the Allies—which primarily houses undergraduate students—is commonly misidentified as being in South Oakland, when in fact it constitutes the heart of Central Oakland.

Maybe 10-15% of people I know live in Squirrel Hill (definitely higher for graduate students), and I know a handful who live in Greenfield, Shadyside, Bloomfield, and Regent Square. I know very very few Pitt students who lived Downtown. I don't know any students who live in Lawrenceville. As for the South Hills, I imagine a considerable percentage of Pitt students don't even know it exists...

What surprises me is that more students don't try other neighborhoods, and just stick to Oakland. With your Panther Card giving you free bus rides, why not consider Swissvale, which is at the end of the East Busway, or Dormont, on the Red Line? I'd reckon you would pay less for better places there.

[grep]

Once I had been at Pitt for a couple years, I probably knew of 1-2 large get-togethers every week that I could go to. And just to clarify, most of these parties aren't like "Animal House": some people do party quite hard, but many others don't drink at all and are just there to socialize and eat BBQ Lay's.