Upper Hill vs Bloomfield if your interested (Pittsburgh, Penn: 2014, violent crime)

[Uptown kid]

First off, I would like to point out that I recognize these are two perfectly fine city neighborhoods. While we members on the forum generally try to encourage people to these places and speak positively about such neighborhoods, I want to focus on the negative aspects of these areas. An OP an another thread brought this up, but rather than to deluge into an off topic conversation that leads to race, crime, and the downsides to two good neighborhoods, I decide to start my own thread.

So which area would you rather live in or walk through at night? Bloomfield's sketchyist areas/sections where there's concentrated crime or Upper Hill's sketchyist areas/sections where there's concentrated crime. I said "

I would also agree that even the declining part of Sugar Top is safer statistically and practically than Bloomfield. What makes this interesting is that both areas have a home grown group of criminals and spill over.
In Bloomfield the criminals are white, black and all other's with WHITES leading in numbers. In the declining part of Sugar Top the criminals are almost all BLACK. The criminals in Bloomfield have more guns to knifes to spray paint, yet people in this city will tell you Sugar Top has the worse crime problem and reputation. Wonder why?

"
^Which eludes to race, but to me its a little more complex than I originally thought, as it can be an entertaining question depending on perspective. Its not all about Blooomfield having a business district either.

Long story short, here's the essential question. Would you rather live or walk through after dark on a bad block in Bloomfield or a bad block on Sugar Top? .... Would you rather live in/walk through after dark in a place where there's a greater chance of getting robbed or assaulted or belongings taken from by criminals mostly white and sometimes black (sometimes from Garfield). Or live in walk through after dark in majority black area where drug dealers group them selves in a crew/"gang" and there's occasional black on black violence- some steaming from stuff within the neighborhood, some spill over from Middle Hill one of the Burgh's toughest areas.
You can answer this from your perspective (race, class, outlook, preference, what ever). Yet this doesn't have to do with amenities, a stigma effect, population of young people or what ever. What makes this a valid question to me is that would you rather live in a place where there's a SLIM though higher chance you pistol whipped or things stolen of your porch or a place where mainly just drug people get pistol whipped and a teenagers gets shot in broad day...

In Bloomfield you have low life riff-raff among the mostly working class as well as non Bloomfield resident career criminals among the patrons of the business district and residents. In Upper Hill you have a residential area where negativity things are becoming prevalent. Some are wanabees who grow up living a middle class lifesyle, some are forreal kids who grew up in the projects but now moved to Sugar Top, some are people from near by parts of the Hill just hanging out in Sugar Top, all among the hard working people of all income in Sugar Top.
Since crime is higher in Bloomfield I would rather live on the street/block closest to where the seventeen year old was killed the other day than on a block/street in Bloomfield where there are annual reasons for at least one resident/patron in the area to call the police.
https://mapsengine.google.com/map/ed...Y.k248L75F--G4 here's the are of Upper Hill I was referencing.
*Remember both areas are still relatively safe even though this thread focuses on crime

[Uptown kid]

Facts
-the median income of Upper Hill in 2011: $23,214- however there are likely still more middle class residents here than in Bloomfield
-the median household income of Bloomfield in 2011: $35,321

Bloomfield's crime areas are largely white. Upper Hill's block by block area is largely black from Shawnee to Clarissa St, but diverse around Webster Ave and Iowa St... while the safest areas are very diverse.

Recorded Violent Crime (robberies/assaults)/Property Crime (burglaries/theft) in 2012 Bloomfield: 53vc/398pc
Recorded Violent Crime (robberies/assaults)/Property Crime (burglaries/theft) Violent Crime in 2012 Upper Hill: 15vc/56pc... Upper Hill has fewer crimes all together in the course of several years than Bloomfield in one year

Murders in Bloomfield since 2008:3
City officer faces trial in bar killing - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
-(my guess alc influenced bar killing. isolated incident)
Victim of hit-and-run is identified by examiner's office - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
-(hit and run. isolated incident)
Man charged in wife's shooting death in Bloomfield - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
-(crazy man killed wife. isolated incident)

Murders in Upper Hill since 2008: 4
Hill District teen killed inside park - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
-(my guess some streets stuff could have involved home grown youth or Middle Hill youth. maybe isolated incident but probably crime that effected those involved in drugs)
Mother in shock over 'senseless' killing of son, 43, in Hill District - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
-(my guess some streets stuff could have involved home grown people or Middle Hill people. probably crime that effected the family of those involved in drugs but incident victim)
Police identify Hill District homicide victim - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
-(my guess some streets stuff could have involved home grown people or Middle Hill people. definite isolated incident)
recently a teen got killed

[JimboPGH]

Originally Posted by Uptown kid

Facts

Recorded Violent Crime (robberies/assaults)/Property Crime (burglaries/theft) in 2012 Bloomfield: 53vc/398pc
Recorded Violent Crime (robberies/assaults)/Property Crime (burglaries/theft) Violent Crime in 2012 Upper Hill: 15vc/56pc... Upper Hill has fewer crimes all together in the course of several years than Bloomfield in one year

What's the population of Sugar Top vs Bloomfield? The gross crime stats don't mean anything without the proper context.

[ferraris]

Bloomfield is a neighborhood that attracts outsiders. As such, I'd be comfortable walking around there at night since nobody would bat an eye at a stranger walking around the neighborhood after dark. Having lived there in the past, I have walked around there at night frequently without issue. The concept of "Bloomfield's bad blocks" is foreign to me other than maybe right on Penn Avenue or down near the busway on Sassafrass/Neville/Lorrigan/Juniper.

I'm not familiar enough with the Upper Hill at night to really comment on it.

[eschaton]

Even on a per-capita basis, Bloomfield has historically been less safe than the Upper Hill. I have access to the 2010 crime statistics for all neighborhoods for back in 2010. Then it was

Bloomfield:
5.4 Part 1 crimes per 100 people
4.4. Part 2 crimes per 100 people
10.0 total

Upper Hill:
2.2 part 1 crimes per 100 people
3.8 part 2 crimes per 100 people
6.0 total

For 2012 the numbers were as follows:

Bloomfield: 5.3 Part 1, 4.3 Part 2 (9.6 total)
Upper Hill: 3.5 Part 1, 6.3 Part 2 (9.8 total)

The amount of crime in Bloomfield was essentially stable, but the amount in the Upper Hill rose significantly, with Part 2 (nonviolent) crime now slightly more prevalent. Keep in mind though, that Part 2 crimes include loitering, embezzlement, forgery and counterfeiting, disorderly conduct, driving under the influence, drug offenses, fraud, gambling, liquor offenses, offenses against the family, prostitution, public drunkenness, runaways, sex offenses (besides rape), stolen property, vandalism, vagrancy, and weapons offenses. While these aren't good things, most of them are unlikely to cause a huge hassle to a bystander compared to the biggies like robbery, burglary, murder, rape, etc. And even on this measure, the Upper Hill is exactly at the median for a Pittsburgh neighborhood, not unsafe.

On the whole though, I'd say the two neighborhoods are roughly equal. Even though Bloomfield has more Part 1 crime even today, as I noted in the other thread, it has a business district, which almost always leads to more property crime. A fair amount of the crime is either directed at business owners, or targeted at people passing through the neighborhood, so as a resident, you'd not run into as much trouble as the statistics suggest.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Even though Bloomfield has more Part 1 crime even today, as I noted in the other thread, it has a business district, which almost always leads to more property crime.

Because of the business district, it's where I'd rather live.

[selltheburgh]

you can't compare them because it is like comparing apples to oranges.

upper hill aka sugar top doesn't have destination businesses. it is isolated at the top of a hill. the only people who go there are residents, friends of residents, church goers or some people passing through for a short cut.

bloomfield has a business district on a major thru-way between downtown and shadyside/east liberty. it also has a major hospital aka west penn, borders another major hospital upmc shadyside, is spitting distance from a third major hospital aka childrens. additionally, there are car dealerships in bloomfield, banks, restaurants, jewelry stores, grocery store, and most other amenities. that serve locals and people from nearby areas.

also - penn ave in what most consider Garfield is half Gloomfield. The southern side of the street from the cemetery to S Aiken is Bloomfield. As is the alleyway behind it.

[robrobrob]

I would bet that no one randomly walks through Sugar Top so if you did you might look out of place. Now, that doesn't mean that someone would take offense to that. Bloomfield probably has more foot traffic which probably means that someone could be waiting for the right "opportunity."

[doo dah]

Originally Posted by selltheburgh

you can't compare them because it is like comparing apples to oranges.

upper hill aka sugar top doesn't have destination businesses. it is isolated at the top of a hill. the only people who go there are residents, friends of residents, church goers or some people passing through for a short cut.

bloomfield has a business district on a major thru-way between downtown and shadyside/east liberty. it also has a major hospital aka west penn, borders another major hospital upmc shadyside, is spitting distance from a third major hospital aka childrens. additionally, there are car dealerships in bloomfield, banks, restaurants, jewelry stores, grocery store, and most other amenities. that serve locals and people from nearby areas.

also - penn ave in what most consider Garfield is half Gloomfield. The southern side of the street from the cemetery to S Aiken is Bloomfield. As is the alleyway behind it.

Gloomfield, must be where the cemeteries are!