Southern Betlway (Pittsburgh, Liberty, New Stanton: live, cost of, move)

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by speagles84

The southern beltway IS a turnpike though. That's what I'm trying to point out. The state will not own it.

It's like if CSX decided to build commuter rail. It's their money and the profits from the passengersl trips would support that portion of the transportation network. It literally would have nothing to do with the port authority. The port authority couldn't tell CSX to use their funds to support another branch of the transportation network.

First, the turnpike commission is a state entity, just like PennDot. The state does own it. The governor appoints the board, the legislature sets its rules. It keeps its own books separately from the general budget, for better or worse, but it is not separate from the state. Comparing it to CSX is absurd.

Second, the Mon-Fay is a turnpike, but it isn't The Turnpike. My point is that when a state agency (like the Turnpike Commission) uses the profits and capital from one source (the actual Pennsylvania Turnpike) to build a different road (the Mon-Fay), that's taxes whatever you want to call it. You can say that the Commission is just issuing bonds for the Mon-Fay, not money from the actual Turnpike if the bonds are written specifically to the Mon-Fay and not the commission as a whole.

[MountainDewGuy]

This region would be better served using $2 billion to link downtown Pittsburgh with Oakland and the East End via rail. You know, places with high density where people live and work. The oncoming population increase in the decades ahead will effect those locations more than Monroeville and Jefferson Hills.

But that's "too expensive".

[speagles84]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

First, the turnpike commission is a state entity, just like PennDot. The state does own it. The governor appoints the board, the legislature sets its rules. It keeps its own books separately from the general budget, for better or worse, but it is not separate from the state. Comparing it to CSX is absurd.

Second, the Mon-Fay is a turnpike, but it isn't The Turnpike. My point is that when a state agency (like the Turnpike Commission) uses the profits and capital from one source (the actual Pennsylvania Turnpike) to build a different road (the Mon-Fay), that's taxes whatever you want to call it. You can say that the Commission is just issuing bonds for the Mon-Fay, not money from the actual Turnpike if the bonds are written specifically to the Mon-Fay and not the commission as a whole.

My bad, when I say state I should have said Penndot. I know it's linked to the government but it's not the same entity. The comparison to CSX was just to say it's money comes from a completely different area.

The turnpike is not just 76. I don't know how else to say if it's owned by the turnpike, it is the turnpike.

[WhoIsStanwix?]

Originally Posted by MountainDewGuy

This region would be better served using $2 billion to link downtown Pittsburgh with Oakland and the East End via rail. You know, places with high density where people live and work. The oncoming population increase in the decades ahead will effect those locations more than Monroeville and Jefferson Hills.

But that's "too expensive".

I think this was part of my point in saying I don't understand the benefit to the turnpike being separate from other transportation funding. There are more valuable long term uses of the funds, but it seems non-road uses aren't even possible under the current structure.

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by PITairport

The final segment of the MFE isn't about being able to get from Pleasant Hills to Monroeville.

It is about completing the final segment of a beltway 3/4 of the way around Pittsburgh (when including the existing turnpike between Monroeville and Cranberry). It is about being able to get from the eastern suburbs to the western suburbs/airport area without having to go through the city. It is about being able to get from the Mon Valley to the Allegheny Valley. The benefit to the South Hills is only a fraction of the overall benefit the completed road will bring.

It also connects the Mon Valley directly to Pittsburgh International Airport, and it gives all the unused brownfields from Homestead to Clairton quick access to a highway that can actually handle truck traffic. The existing two-lane backroads are inadequate for trucks, and PA 51 is a commuter arterial that can handle only limited truck traffic.

Has anybody ever noticed that new manufacturing plants are always located very close to Interstates and other limited-access highways? That's so they can get their products shipped out easily. What better way to reuse old, abandoned brownfields than by giving them direct highway access? Then again, maybe we'd be better off not building either of these highways so manufacturers can build on previously undeveloped greenfields near I-79 while everywhere from Homestead to Clairton continues to rot.

Plain and simple, the Mon-Fayette Expressway and South Beltway are being built primarily for industrial purposes, not residential/commuter purposes.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by Craziaskowboi

It also connects the Mon Valley directly to Pittsburgh International Airport, and it gives all the unused brownfields from Homestead to Clairton quick access to a highway that can actually handle truck traffic. The existing two-lane backroads are inadequate for trucks, and PA 51 is a commuter arterial that can handle only limited truck traffic.

Homestead is very close to a highway that can actually handle truck traffic. I see large trucks with loaded with industrial products rolling up Beechwood to the Parkway all the time.

[xdv8]

Originally Posted by MountainDewGuy

This region would be better served using $2 billion to link downtown Pittsburgh with Oakland and the East End via rail. You know, places with high density where people live and work. The oncoming population increase in the decades ahead will effect those locations more than Monroeville and Jefferson Hills.

But that's "too expensive".

This is the main transportation need in the Pittsburgh area, no question. However, this thread is a suburban discussion about their new exciting road to nowhere important.

[Paul2421]

Originally Posted by MountainDewGuy

This region would be better served using $2 billion to link downtown Pittsburgh with Oakland and the East End via rail. You know, places with high density where people live and work. The oncoming population increase in the decades ahead will effect those locations more than Monroeville and Jefferson Hills.

But that's "too expensive".

You mean the busway that does this right now? I really don't understand why this is so desired. are there really that many people that travel between oakland and downtown? you either work in eds and meds in oakland or downtown and live accordingly. maybe i'm ignorant of something.

[xdv8]

Originally Posted by Paul2421

You mean the busway that does this right now? I really don't understand why this is so desired. are there really that many people that travel between oakland and downtown? you either work in eds and meds in oakland or downtown and live accordingly. maybe i'm ignorant of something.

The busway is beyond capacity, have you used it during the rush hours? Even with constant P1/P2 it can't keep up and double busses are full, without standing room. The rail needs to connect the East with downtown. Oakland would be a part of it, because Oakland is a large economic center but it would need to service Shadyside, Strip, LV, East Liberty - basically extend through to the eastern edge of the City. It's a no brainer, really.

[MountainDewGuy]

Originally Posted by Paul2421

You mean the busway that does this right now? I really don't understand why this is so desired. are there really that many people that travel between oakland and downtown? you either work in eds and meds in oakland or downtown and live accordingly. maybe i'm ignorant of something.

There are a ton of people who work in Oakland, and many of them live in the South Hills and would be able to commute on the T if didn't end downtown. With the North Shore connector, people in the North Hills who currently park on the North Shore and ride the T to work downtown would now be able to also ride the T to work to Oakland. This also opens up a T extension on the 579 HOV lane, which would connect folks in the South Hills and North Hills to both Downtown and Oakland. That would be huge and would eliminate 10s of thousands of cars from the road each day, and I didn't even mention the benefit to the people currently living east of Downtown.

When I travel to other cities and ride their rail system to get to most of the employment, cultural and education hubs, and then come back to Pittsburgh it is very irritating.