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South Side Flats is a neighborhood which is, unsurprisingly, on the south side of Pittsburgh, just across the Monongahela River from Oakland and Uptown. Effectively speaking, almost its entire land boundary in Pittsburgh is with the neighborhood of South Side Slopes (different enough we'll discuss it next week), a very natural border bounded by the rise of the hillside and a set of railroad tracks. It also shares small borders with the South Shore (at the Liberty Bridge), Arlington (albeit no road connections) and with Baldwin Borough (The corner of East Carson and Becks Run Road is technically in South Side Flats, meaning Page's Dairy Mart is in the neighborhood).
As an area very close to downtown, what is today the South Side had a very long history as a built up area. Initially, like much of the surrounding area, the South Side Flats were part of a land grant to Major John Ormsby, who assisted in the building of Fort Pitt. By the 1770s, Ormby had an estae in this region and established a ferry across the Monongahela River.
It was John Ormsby's son-in-law, however, who began to give South Side its modern configuration. In 1811 Dr. Nathaniel Bedford began laying out a town in the flats, which he named Birmingham after his native city. He named the main streets after children in the family (Mary, Jane, Sarah, and Sidney) and the main thoroughfare - Carson Street - after a friend of his - a sea captain based out of Philadelphia. Birmingham Borough boomed as an early mill town. A neighboring borough - East Birmingham - was later incorporated. The boundary between these two municipalities was at 17th street. This explains the curious discontinuous grid in the South Side, where the western portions have blocks which are oriented north to south, and the eastern portions blocks which were oriented east to west, and how no streets whatsoever other than East Carson align.
In 1873, both Birmingham and East Birmingham were annexed by the city (modern day South Side west of 27th Street stayed unincorporated a bit longer). By that time period, essentially everything to the west of 21st street was completely built out. To put this in perspective, at that time period not only was the East End still undeveloped farmland, but even many of the "older" Pittsburgh neighborhoods like Bloomfield, Polish Hill, Troy Hill, Allegheny West, and even much of Lawrenceville were still lightly developed. The built vernacular of the neighborhood was based upon tightly packed rowhouses. Unlike most other flat rowhouse areas of the city (aside from Deutschtown) there was a basically even split between brick and frame housing, with brick predominating on the main streets, and frame dominating the alleyways.
As the late 19th century wore on, South Side Flats became more and more of a mill town - increasingly dominated by a single mill - J&L. The plant had its start as a small ironworks run by Benjamin Franklin Jones in the 1850s, but during the depression of 1873, Jones started his partnership with a local banker, James H. Laughlin. By 1910, J&L employed 15,000 workers in the South Side, and had a network of coal mines, inclines, and single-purpose railroads across the region. The need for additional space caused the construction of the Hot Metal Bridge in 1900, allowing the plant to expand into Hazelwood. A satellite plant was also constructed downriver in 1905 resulted in the company town of Aliquippa. Although a number of different ethnicity passed through South Side Flats, it became most known for a panoply of different Eastern European groups.
Although a bustling and economically vibrant, South Side Flats was also incredibly overcrowded and choked by pollution in the early 20th century. The area began to have a precipitous population decline well before the era of mass suburbanization. In part this was due to the number of children per household, along with increasing conversion of residential blocks closer to the river to industrial uses. But much of it was simply because people of means had better options once electric streetcars became a thing. South Side never had a large upper-middle class like the North Side, but what was there retreated to comparatively cleaner hilltop communities like Knoxville and Mount Oliver. South Side thus began its long period of decline in desirability. The neighborhood dodged a huge bullet in the mid 20th century. There were at one point plans to do to South Side what was done to Manchester - building a highway parallel to East Carson Street, demolishing everything closer to the river, and turning it into a giant industrial park. It is for this reason that the Birmingham Bridge (and the Glenwood Bridge upriver) are so over-engineered - they were planned to link up to a highway system, not surface roads. Over
South Side hit bottom and began to recover in the mid 1980s - coincidentally, right around the time period where the J&L mill (which had been in decline for decades) closed. The revival started with a realization that the extensive Victorian business district along East Carson was worth retaining through a robust historic preservation effort. Art galleries moved in during the early 1990s, along with what became a popular locally-owned coffeeshop (The Beehive) and several local musical venues. In 1993, the URA announced it was buying the former J&L mill site, which was ultimately redeveloped into South Side Works. While the first elements of this mixed use development of retail, office space, hotels, restaurants, and apartments opened in 2004, development of the full site was rather slow, with the last few parcels currently under development.
As South Side became more hip, gentrification inevitably occurred, raising the real estate prices considerably, and the original "scene" either moved on or grew up. An increasing number of bars moved in along East Carson Street, with many of them targeting the "bro" demographic. As the reputation of the neighborhood improved, an increasing number of students of Duquesne (which has slowly moved from being a commuter school to a more residential university) began renting in the western portion of the neighborhood. Particularly after Pittsburgh's transitory "club" scene migrated from the Station Square to South Side, the neighborhood was known for being quite rowdy, perhaps peaking in terms of craziness a decade ago.
Over the last decade, the neighborhood has in many ways been eclipsed by the gentrification of neighborhoods in the East End like Lawrencevile and East Liberty. New apartment buildings continue to be constructed, and virtually every available vacant lot has been infilled with a new construction house. But the business district in South Side has been struggling a bit. Many attribute this to South Side NIMBYism. Parking in South Side was never easy, considering that unlike many other rowhouse neighborhoods in the city, virtually no houses have a full-size lot which fronts on an alley, meaning there is little off-street parking. Given many people drive to the South Side to socialize, the popularity of the neighborhood made it difficult for residents to park near their homes. In relatively quick succession, essentially every residential street in South Side Flats went over to permit parking. The initial enforcement of it was limited at nighttime, meaning it didn't really cut down on bar traffic. It did, however, cut down on daytime shopping. Worse, employees of many South Side businesses had nowhere in the neighborhood to park all day, making it difficult to work there unless they lived in the neighborhood (which is hard for low-wage service workers) or took one of the few buses in. As a result, the number of vacant storefronts along Carson Street has begun to rise once again.
South Side will, I believe, work through these issues as time passes. It will likely never be the "entertainment destination" it was in the past, but every year additional housing units go online (another 325 are planned as part of the Pittsburgh Flats development) it means South Side becomes less reliant upon outsiders for store traffic. Real estate appreciation is still solid, albeit in part because of a continuing stream of newer construction and rehabbed units. Rental prices have leveled off and begun to fall, but this is a good thing, considering a large proportion of historic South Side units historically were dated units in what should have been single-family homes. The neighborhood does have significant drawbacks - the remuddled housing stock, the scarcity of parking, and the relatively limited transit options. But with certainly the longest, and arguably the best traditional business district in the city, it's easy to overlook those drawbacks.
I was there in late 1980s-early 1990s. Still a great place to be. Businesses from then still around are Jack's bar, True Value hardware store, Mike & Tony's, Dairy Queen, antiques store. Place I miss are the shoe repair guy on 16th, Yesterday's News, Groovy, that greek pastry and coffee bar place. The lost great movie from 1987, Dominick & Eugene featuring Tom Hulce and Ray Liotta, was filmed on my block. Fun times. I miss that Southside. The period right before the boom hit.
I was there in late 1980s-early 1990s. Still a great place to be. Businesses from then still around are Jack's bar, True Value hardware store, Mike & Tony's, Dairy Queen, antiques store. Place I miss are the shoe repair guy on 16th, Yesterday's News, Groovy, that greek pastry and coffee bar place. The lost great movie from 1987, Dominick & Eugene featuring Tom Hulce and Ray Liotta, was filmed on my block. Fun times. I miss that Southside. The period right before the boom hit.
I miss Groovy. There was also a creepy occult type store right beside Pittsburgh Guitars.
South Side Flats is a neighborhood which is, unsurprisingly, on the south side of Pittsburgh, just across the Monongahela River from Oakland and Uptown.
I used to visit Pittsburgh quite a bit before I moved here. During a visit in what was probably 2004 or 2005, we were in Market Square and my friend asked where a good place to get a tattoo was. Someone told us that all of that stuff was in South Side. So we figured we'd just drive south to find South Side. Went over the Liberty Bridge and through the tunnels and kept driving south on 19 until we found the tattoo shops. We made it as far as Peter's Township before realizing our advice was probably wrong. It seems so obvious for someone living here, but as a transplant - never would have clued in that South Side was SE of downtown opposite the lands between Downtown and Oakland. Even if were just a touch smarter, we probably would have thought it was Station Square.
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Originally Posted by eschaton
The corner of East Carson and Becks Run Road is technically in South Side Flats, meaning Page's Dairy Mart is in the neighborhood.
Page's is awesome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton
...but every year additional housing units go online (another 325 are planned as part of the Pittsburgh Flats development) it means South Side becomes less reliant upon outsiders for store traffic.
From what I understand, this project is dead in the water. The NIMBYs and Bruce Kraus got a hold of this and killed it. They argued parking and that the building was too tall and would block views of Oakland. I think Bruce told them it could be 4 stories instead of 5, but the developer indicated that at 4 stories the project would not be profitable enough to proceed.
There was also a church planning to be converted into multi-unit residential that was killed because of "parking" by local NIMBYs. There's a really big fight between those trying to redevelop anything compared to those who have had roots in the neighborhood for years and fight just for the sake of fighting. I've seen people push back on sidewalk repaving. It's madness.
The neighborhood did have an issue with crusties/train kids for a while. While there were in fact some documented issues with the "train kids"; they showed up around the same time the recent opioid epidemic hit, and as such they got blamed for just about everything in the neighborhood - from missing packages, needles, bike theft, etc. The city worked pretty hard to push them out, and were fairly successful in doing so. However, sure enough as the train kids disappeared, most of the same problems they were associated with still persisted - as many of the perceived side effects of the opioid epidemic were blamed on the train kids.
Parking is a complex issue. The permit parking was good on paper, but implemented horribly. The perception locally is that the permit parking has no clear winner and mostly losers. There's clearly a shortage of good parking in the neighborhood. Bruce Kraus has tried to make parking available across the river over by the jail offering a shuttle service - however this has been a huge flop. Much of the feedback is people don't like waiting for a shuttle every 30 minutes to get to their car parked half a mile to a mile away. Trying to force changes in consumer behavior that don't adequately meet the demands of the consumer doesn't usually work well. Uber and Lyft were successful in derailing Yellow Cab because they provided a pathway to convenience, not because they forced people to jump through their hoops.
South Side is built out with a business district much larger than what could be supported by the current neighborhood population; but doesn't have the conveniences to support enough of the commuter population. I believe PNC a while ago was only looking at candidates for their branch at Carson and 18th that could walk or commute to work. While desirability to be in the neighborhood is still very high despite a perceived slight general decline in conditions over the past decade, it's almost entirely built out, and any attempts to further increase building density tend to be met with extreme NIMBYism. The NIMBYs have been pretty successful lately, backed by [SARCASM]the incredibly popular[/SARCASM] Bruce Kraus.
South Side Works is mostly vacant these days from a retail standpoint - both being a victim of bricks & mortar dying nationally, as well as charging retail rents far outside of market value. They recently transferred management to a new firm - so I'm hoping they're wise enough to know they're not going to get $4K/mo for 1200 sq feet. The restaurants (that aren't crap like that short-lived Asian Fusion Bowl place on Carson St, not to be confused with BD's Mongolian Grill) usually tend to get by, but they're surviving on the "Office Park" populations of American Eagle and UPMC, which combined employ a few thousand people in SSW - combined with (shrinking) weekend crowds (as nearly a half dozen stores have closed in the past year).
I think the South Side is a great study on what happens to a neighborhood post-gentrification. Growth in itself is its own economy. If an area stops growing or improving, the speculation and capital that creates investment is basically where you hit your diminishing returns.
A lot of the real estate appreciation over the past few years from what I've seen has been based on the rehabbing of properties. I've seen a few properties with no rehab work lose money. 1717 Jane Street sold for $362,500 in 2011, but only $355,000 in 2017. It took over a year to sell as well. It's an indicator that buying/investing in South Side is a bit more risky these days as you're not guaranteed the ROI (or any ROI) that you'd see in other areas. Retail rates are still astronomical while residential rates are falling. This isn't sustainable, and when you look at areas that are improving, the opposite model (lower commercial rates to attract "in" types of retail options) tends to be one of the indicators that correlate with growth. There are fewer galleries, shops, and quirky/unique experimental places than in years past; while some of which have moved online - others were simply priced out. And the current environment isn't as attractive to new investment as it was in the past due to higher rents and a neighborhood that's not seeing continued levels of growth.
The neighborhood priced itself beyond the point of large scale capital investment, and now dealing with not necessarily a decline, but a deceleration in levels of growth I think makes it an interesting study for what happens when other neighborhoods (e.g. Lawrenceville, East Liberty) also cool off at some point. How do neighborhoods cope with "leveling off"? Does the deceleration continue, or does the neighborhood eventually stabilize?
A positive trend (this is subjective & depends on what you’re looking for of course) is that of virtually all of the new businesses to open in the past year they’ve all been restaurants, stores, gyms or various service type establishment rather then a bar.
Parking is definitely an issue as the city has botched it up. While I don’t believe there should be free parking automatically available in an urban neighborhood or that paying for parking should be an issue, having not enough parking is. The city closed off all the off Carson St parking to residential permits (both day & night) but added no additional parking at all to the area & for whatever reason shows a complete unwillingness to entertain a parking garage idea or anything of the sort. Yes there is amply parking at the South Side Works but you can’t expect most people (even if they could use the excercise) to walk 15 blocks to go out to eat. Yes the area is served by bus lines but that doesnt cut it.
The biggest detriment that’s led to a bit of stagnation for the commercial area is many of the respective landlords seem willing to acknowledge that Carson St isn’t the only game in town anymore & continue to ask for rents that are at the top of anywhere in the city. Reality will hopefully sink in sooner than later.
Residential homes sales continue to be fine & gut jobs, flips & new (albeit ugly) construction are going strong. All the new apartment that have been built over the past couple of years has been great at putting some of the slumlords out of business & I take joy in hearing the complaints of people who’ve been getting top dollar for a rental that’s not been updated in a few decades & now suddenly can’t find tenants & especially when they then choose to sell the places & it reverts back to a single family home.
As you noted nimbyism is strong in the neighborhood & our councilman is firmly in that group so development has to occurin spite of their opposition which can be maddening at times.
Property crime continues to be an issue some from the drunk bros but primarily from the hilltops that continue to trend downward or the ‘travelers’ that the city is unwillingly to deal with & choose to turn a blind eye to instead.
I chose the neighborhood when I moved here because it most resembled a European high street (UK anyways) that was also close to my job & in spite of issues remain happy with that choice; having every amenity I could possibly need (even a highly rated elementary school) within walking distance is a big plus too. I find most of the vocal critics of the area base their assessment on that one Friday night they spent out 5 years ago or what WPXI tells them. Most of the time it’s pretty quiet & even the nights it’s not, the ‘revelry’ is generally limited to the blocks between 13-18th streets.
There was also a church planning to be converted into multi-unit residential that was killed because of "parking" by local NIMBYs. There's a really big fight between those trying to redevelop anything compared to those who have had roots in the neighborhood for years and fight just for the sake of fighting. I've seen people push back on sidewalk repaving. It's madness.
The church project is actually back on track in spite of a neighbor getting 3 separate work stoppages against the project since work began. I guess they prefer a vacant building in disrepair on their block...
What was the name of the former futon place in the South Side? They being the oldest WYEP sponsor at one point? They've been gone for about 10 years I think... thanks.
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