Pittsburgh 53 out of 53 metros in 2019 census estimates (Indiana, Dormont: middle-class, top neighborhoods)

[Tiredofcomplaintspgh]

This is out of the philly paper early this morning. No articles yet in the Pittsburgh media.

Pittsburgh ranked 53 of 53 and had the largest decline in the country. Population losses of 1.4 percent. The Pittsburgh metro estimates are now 2,324,700

https://www.philly.com/news/a/philad...-20190418.html

[szug-bot]

Originally Posted by Tiredofcomplaintspgh

This is out of the philly paper early this morning. No articles yet in the Pittsburgh media.

Pittsburgh ranked 53 of 53 and had the largest decline in the country. Population losses of 1.4 percent. The Pittsburgh metro estimates are now 2,324,700

https://www.philly.com/news/a/philad...-20190418.html

Thanks for this link. This continues to surprise me, but I eagerly wait contributions to this thread from people who can provide more insight into why this city continues to decline in population.

I wonder if it actually might have to do with INCREASED overall standards and personal wealth - people get employment stability, or BETTER employment, get a car, then set up in a more comfortable, quieter area in the suburbs, maybe.

Or, and I think this has merit - increased # of jobs, and the better jobs (non-health care related) seem to be IN the suburbs. I myself have no reason at this point to remain in the city, except the desire for a walkable/bikeable community (which is rarely enjoyed, anyway).

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

This continues to surprise me, but I eagerly wait contributions to this thread from people who can provide more insight into why this city continues to decline in population.

I've been here a decade now and have been watching my rent soar and traffic congestion worsen while our population plummets. Something just isn't adding up.

My guess would be (although I'll defer to our resident demographics experts like Eschaton or Craziaskowboi) that the urban core of the metro area is growing while everywhere else is in steep decline. The slight growth of the urban core just can't overpower the steep decline elsewhere.

I think that will be the same case with the city proper's population now probably being precariously close to 300,000 (possibly a tad under by 2020). While it feels like the East End is booming, all the construction cranes there can't overpower the rest of the city sharting the bed.

The city really feels like it's putting its eggs all in one basket, so to speak, while letting dozens of other neighborhoods (Council District 2/West End, Southern Hilltop neighborhoods, outer North Side, the predominantly black neighborhoods of the Upper East End, etc.) languish/fade away into oblivion.

It's a shame Pittsburgh's city proper is becoming a San Francisco surrounded by a Memphis and the metro area at-large is becoming a Seattle (booming urban core buoyed by tech growth) surrounded by a Mississippi (outer suburbs/rural areas who can't see that their leader isn't "Making America Great Again").

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

I myself have no reason at this point to remain in the city, except the desire for a walkable/bikeable community (which is rarely enjoyed, anyway).

I live in the city precisely because of the walkability; however, the city has too few walkable neighborhoods relative to the percentage of the population that wants to live in a walkable neighborhood.

Walkable neighborhoods shouldn't be reserved exclusively for the upper-middle-class and wealthy (not just a Pittsburgh policy issue, as this seems to be occurring nationwide).

As we personally consider moving into another cheaper neighborhood we're finding most that are truly within our comfortable rental budget aren't walkable at all. So then I need to ask why stay in the city at all, then, when I could conceivably move to a cheaper walkable suburb (Millvale, Bellevue, McKees Rocks, Sharpsburg, Etna, Blawnox, Verona, Dormont, etc.) for renting and still use my car just as much as I'd have to use it in a non-walkable city neighborhood while also paying the wage tax?

[SteelCityRising]

https://www.post-gazette.com/local/r...s/201904180079

The Post-Gazette now has an article highlighting how the Sacramento MSA passed us by. We are now the 27th-largest metropolitan area in the country.

The article also shows that Allegheny County posted a steep population decline (fifth straight year), which is interesting because our resident demographic spin doctors always try to say that Allegheny County is a growing oasis/beacon surrounded by counties that are dragging us down like an anchor.

I wouldn't be so upset by this news if we were seeing some of the "benefits" of a declining population (declining rents; decreasing traffic congestion; rising wages as employers try to retain their talent from moving away; etc.) Instead none of these are occurring---just the opposite.

[Lost_In_Translation]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

https://www.post-gazette.com/local/r...s/201904180079

The Post-Gazette now has an article highlighting how the Sacramento MSA passed us by. We are now the 27th-largest metropolitan area in the country.

The article also shows that Allegheny County posted a steep population decline (fifth straight year), which is interesting because our resident demographic spin doctors always try to say that Allegheny County is a growing oasis/beacon surrounded by counties that are dragging us down like an anchor.

I wouldn't be so upset by this news if we were seeing some of the "benefits" of a declining population (declining rents; decreasing traffic congestion; rising wages as employers try to retain their talent from moving away; etc.) Instead none of these are occurring---just the opposite.

Pittsburgh the city and near suburbs are growing, Allegheny county and the adjacent counties are shrinking rapidly. I’ll be interested in the actual 2020 census results which should be much more comprehensive then these fly by night survey based counts.

[PghYinzer]

Not surprised as it is MSA population not city population. Has anyone been to the far reaches of the Pittsburgh MSA? I am not talking about places like Kitanning even, I mean places like Yatesboro or Elderton in Armstrong County. It is extremely rural, with very few reasons for many people to live there anymore. To put it in perspective, there are almost 3x as many students at IUP than there are residents of Kitanning. Dying rural areas an hour+ away from Pittsburgh are not a signal as to the strength of the core city and suburbs, a sign that jobs are not in the city anymore, or that rents should be decreasing.

In the 16 years I have been in Pittsburgh, the city has improved so much its not even like living in the same place. So the population of the MSA means nothing to me, its the quality of the city in the center of it all that matters to me.

[Tiredofcomplaintspgh]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

https://www.post-gazette.com/local/r...s/201904180079

The Post-Gazette now has an article highlighting how the Sacramento MSA passed us by. We are now the 27th-largest metropolitan area in the country.

The article also shows that Allegheny County posted a steep population decline (fifth straight year), which is interesting because our resident demographic spin doctors always try to say that Allegheny County is a growing oasis/beacon surrounded by counties that are dragging us down like an anchor.

I wouldn't be so upset by this news if we were seeing some of the "benefits" of a declining population (declining rents; decreasing traffic congestion; rising wages as employers try to retain their talent from moving away; etc.) Instead none of these are occurring---just the opposite.

Over the last 70+ years the region has been in decline. 2008-2012 was a blip on the radar. The Pittsburgh economy at that time was better than anywhere else in the country. Hence there was growth during that period. Imagine if the recession never happened. How much worse would the decline be? An interesting debate for sure.

Look at the Detroit metro. Growth! The city must not be declining at all. Look at Grand Rapids, Indianapolis and Columbus. Big growth numbers for the undesirable, boring and flat Midwest

Pittsburgh has jobs but the wages are below average. There are a lot of educated people that want to stay. In another post you hear of those with masters degrees making 15 bucks an hour. There aren’t enough good paying jobs to absorb all of the college grads here. By the same token outsiders aren’t going to come for low wages.

The economist hit the nail on the head at the end. There is nothing making the Pittsburgh economy and job market stand out from other cities. And people go where wages are good.

[Paul2421]

Originally Posted by Tiredofcomplaintspgh

Over the last 70+ years the region has been in decline. 2008-2012 was a blip on the radar. The Pittsburgh economy at that time was better than anywhere else in the country. Hence there was growth during that period. Imagine if the recession never happened. How much worse would the decline be? An interesting debate for sure.

Look at the Detroit metro. Growth! The city must not be declining at all. Look at Grand Rapids, Indianapolis and Columbus. Big growth numbers for the undesirable, boring and flat Midwest

Pittsburgh has jobs but the wages are below average. There are a lot of educated people that want to stay. In another post you hear of those with masters degrees making 15 bucks an hour. There aren’t enough good paying jobs to absorb all of the college grads here. By the same token outsiders aren’t going to come for low wages.

The economist hit the nail on the head at the end. There is nothing making the Pittsburgh economy and job market stand out from other cities. And people go where wages are good.

2008 to 2012 was oil and gas growth right?

[PghYinzer]

Wages are below average? How does the city revenue from the wage tax keep growing every year, along with a housing market where prices are increasing and houses still selling, indicate that wages are low?