Study into Route 28 expressway expansion to I-80 gets funding (Pittsburgh: houses, buyers)

[quaddriver]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

Wow is this a bad idea. This helps virtually no community in Pittsburgh and its environs except for the temporary construction jobs in creating this.

No, the problem in PA is there are virtually no major N-S major roadways in PA.


I79 is too far west to service the meat of the state, who REALLY drives Pitt-Erie?, I99 connects NOTHING to PSU, but at least you can now get to PSU instead of 2 lane semi-controlled crashes in the winter, and I81 which is really a pass thru to get to NYC without using jersey. since the railroads up north are all but pulled up, the 4 lane gets you to the oil, gas, timber and autoparts with 60 miles or more less driving than I79

[quaddriver]

Originally Posted by Geeo

I remember reading years ago that Altoona leaders and the Pennsylvania Railroad (which had a huge operation in Altoona) purposely kept highways from being built directly to Altoona because they were afraid it would hurt their passenger railroad business.

This had to be a helluva lot of years ago as PRR passenger ops ceased in 1972 as penn central and they were nil 20+ years before that.

[bradjl2009]

Originally Posted by quaddriver

I79 is too far west to service the meat of the state, who REALLY drives Pitt-Erie?

Are you for real? So many people from Pittsburgh AND Erie use 79 to go back and forth between the cities, and it's an important link for Pittsburghers to get to Western New York and Canada.

[quaddriver]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

As someone who routinely travels between Pittsburgh and Scranton this intrigues me. I HATE 22. So many traffic lights and speed traps and inconsistent speed limits and brutal ascents and descents.

yes but 22 is infinitely better than what is was when I commuted between pitt and huntingdon. It took a little political willpower to get rid of the clown car that was center lane turning and if it was not for needed revenue generation, it could all go 55mph +

[quaddriver]

Originally Posted by bradjl2009

Are you for real? So many people from Pittsburgh AND Erie use 79 to go back and forth between the cities, and it's an important link for Pittsburghers to get to Western New York and Canada.

yes, I am real. And so many people is an unknown number. IF we are making the argument that the highway is worth the cost for the handful (relatively speaking) of vacationers, then we have no argument to resist rt28EXP.


We have a lot of truck traffic from the center (PSU, williamsport) that does not want to use I99 because of the I76 tolls so half runs alllllll the way out to the 19 yard line to take 79 and the other half uses rt66 down to kitanning then grabs r8 there - only bearable because of the large 2 lane climb outs built in the last 15 years.


I79 north of I80 to just south of I90? ghost town. I could land 747s on it and you would never know it.


( I have been using these routes regularly for 54 years...not quote my first rodeo there....)

[villageidiot1]

Originally Posted by quaddriver

It will, just not in our lifetime...a lot like the I99 project which took 50 years.

But with no jobs up north, no one is living there comparatively, so it is easier to grab land around mahoning and redbank to build up to jeff-co. so now it can happen. shave at least 20-25 off my drive north.

The real savings will be kittaning to brookville area

50 years? I know they started upgrading portion of highway Bedford north to Bald Eagle, to a freeway in stages from the 1960s to the 1990s. But 5the idea of I-99 did not come into existence until 1995.

Originally Posted by quaddriver

No, the problem in PA is there are virtually no major N-S major roadways in PA.

I79 is too far west to service the meat of the state, who REALLY drives Pitt-Erie?, I99 connects NOTHING to PSU, but at least you can now get to PSU instead of 2 lane semi-controlled crashes in the winter, and I81 which is really a pass thru to get to NYC without using jersey. since the railroads up north are all but pulled up, the 4 lane gets you to the oil, gas, timber and autoparts with 60 miles or more less driving than I79

"I79 is too far west to service the meat of the state, who REALLY drives Pitt-Erie?" This is a bizarre statement. You're talking a highway that connects the second biggest population center in the state to the fourth largest population area. It also connects Western PA with Buffalo and the rest of Western New York, and with Canada. As far a major N-S highways, what do you call Route 219 and I-99? And what do you mean by the meat of the state? Where exactly is this meat of the state between I-99 and I-79? Would extending Route 219 north to NY help?

Originally Posted by quaddriver

yes, I am real. And so many people is an unknown number. IF we are making the argument that the highway is worth the cost for the handful (relatively speaking) of vacationers, then we have no argument to resist rt28EXP.

We have a lot of truck traffic from the center (PSU, williamsport) that does not want to use I99 because of the I76 tolls so half runs alllllll the way out to the 19 yard line to take 79 and the other half uses rt66 down to kitanning then grabs r8 there - only bearable because of the large 2 lane climb outs built in the last 15 years.

I79 north of I80 to just south of I90? ghost town. I could land 747s on it and you would never know it.

( I have been using these routes regularly for 54 years...not quote my first rodeo there....)

So, in other words, your complaint is really the Turnpike tolls.

[TommyMaddoxWasTheMan]

when looking at this route I discovered a cool little fact (to me at least). You can ride a bicycle on a dedicated right-of-way from Kittanning to Brookville.

I assume this is part of the Pittsburgh-to-Erie trail that’s under development. Will be really great when they extend the trail from Pgh all the way up to Kitanning to connect with this.

As far as the proposal for a highway goes, it really does make sense. I am an environmentalist but I also like to drive, and I think full automation with self driving cars, etc, is far enough off that we are still in the last generation or two of road building. I expect things like the Southern Beltway/MFE to be completed, and probably things like the 219 and 99 extensions north to the NY border, (and 28 to brookville). THEN we should finally be at the end of this era of spending billions on new roads through our green space

[villageidiot1]

Originally Posted by TommyMaddoxWasTheMan

As far as the proposal for a highway goes, it really does make sense. I am an environmentalist but I also like to drive, and I think full automation with self driving cars, etc, is far enough off that we are still in the last generation or two of road building. I expect things like the Southern Beltway/MFE to be completed, and probably things like the 219 and 99 extensions north to the NY border, (and 28 to brookville). THEN we should finally be at the end of this era of spending billions on new roads through our green space

I think it makes about as much sense as the poster who said the Mon-Valley Expressay was a waste of money because it shoul have connected to Maryland instead of down by WV since the ony purpose was to make driving to Washington, D.C. more convenient. Before any of these roads are built, I think we need better east west opitions through or around Pittsburgh. I can work around everything else.

[quaddriver]

Originally Posted by villageidiot1

50 years? I know they started upgrading portion of highway Bedford north to Bald Eagle, to a freeway in stages from the 1960s to the 1990s. But 5the idea of I-99 did not come into existence until 1995.



"I79 is too far west to service the meat of the state, who REALLY drives Pitt-Erie?" This is a bizarre statement. You're talking a highway that connects the second biggest population center in the state to the fourth largest population area. It also connects Western PA with Buffalo and the rest of Western New York, and with Canada. As far a major N-S highways, what do you call Route 219 and I-99? And what do you mean by the meat of the state? Where exactly is this meat of the state between I-99 and I-79? Would extending Route 219 north to NY help?



So, in other words, your complaint is really the Turnpike tolls.

no you really need to look at a map (and besides, I mentioned I99) when they decided to call it I99 is irrelevant, that 4 lane expansion as you said began in the 60's. 50 years. I am only going to live thru 1 50 year expansion. The original easements called for it to be US220 and the previous 220 up to PSU business 220 where it cleaved off to go thru like roaring spring, frankstown, altoona and the like. I99 didnt come into play until the funding designation changed in order to get around the drainage problems. You can thanks the honorable Mr Schuster for that.


as for rt 219, it is not a preferred route simply because most of its length it is a 2 lane bottle neck. Its not even a 55mph bottle neck (the portion from northern cambria to brady street in dubois comes to mind and then dubois to just outside kane). There is a reason those of us who lived in central pa do NOT use it and why the questionable trucker route from I99/220 is 350 in bald eagle up over the summit onto 322 over to clearfield.


when in doubt - ask the truckers.


If traffic is on the upper tier (I80) heading east thru ohio, detination pitt, assuming they didnt drop earlier, they take the eastern extension into around cranberry (eastern ohio that is) if traffic originates central PA the like I said its a split and if traffic comes from the east as in the new england corridor, I81 down to US 22 since 22 is now 4 lanes except for a small portion from lewistown to frankstown but it has plenty of climb outs.


when erie was a major port, it and cleveland were both serviced by the USS owned railroads but I think they are all but shuttered.


face it, pittsburgh is no longer a manufacturing center and neither is erie (and neither have been for decades) and neither is a goods distribution center (for example the cen-pa walmart center is in clearfield-ish off I80) so there really isnt much commercial traffic linking the two given the populations sizes. like I said, I79 north of I80 is under utilized and is NOT part of a bottleneck.


PA is appx 320 miles wide on average and the vast share of the traffic wants to go to/from new york/england. If you are coming from far points west, you switch from the middle to upper tier way way west (assuming you can stomach the mostly tolled I80 across the rust belt. Dont confuse your car traveling the pike to a big truck, the cash rate is about $250 across pa. an expedited frieght drop and hook will do this TWICE a day. If you are an owner operator or a small company...tolls talk.

[xdv8]

Originally Posted by TommyMaddoxWasTheMan

As far as the proposal for a highway goes, it really does make sense. I am an environmentalist but I also like to drive, and I think full automation with self driving cars, etc, is far enough off that we are still in the last generation or two of road building. I expect things like the Southern Beltway/MFE to be completed, and probably things like the 219 and 99 extensions north to the NY border, (and 28 to brookville). THEN we should finally be at the end of this era of spending billions on new roads through our green space

You don't sound like and environmentalist and it's incredibly naive to think they will stop building new roads. Why would it be the end of spending billions? PA is in poor financial condition and we cannot adequately maintain our existing infrastructure, among other things. Every new project is irresponsible.