Study into Route 28 expressway expansion to I-80 gets funding (Pittsburgh: crime, camp)

[quaddriver]

Originally Posted by xdv8

You don't sound like and environmentalist and it's incredibly naive to think they will stop building new roads. Why would it be the end of spending billions? PA is in poor financial condition and we cannot adequately maintain our existing infrastructure, among other things. Every new project is irresponsible.

gee thats kinda pessimistic. they will stop building roads when you stop having babies. 310-315?M and climbing....we will likely see 400M in our lifetimes.


since NIMBY has claimed the railroads - roads it is.


(and if we were REALLY environmentalists, we would ban new shopping centers and make them instead re-purpose 100 acre pavement sites known as 'malls'.)

[villageidiot1]

Originally Posted by xdv8

You don't sound like and environmentalist and it's incredibly naive to think they will stop building new roads. Why would it be the end of spending billions? PA is in poor financial condition and we cannot adequately maintain our existing infrastructure, among other things. Every new project is irresponsible.

I don't agree that, "Every new project is irresponsible," but I think the state has to get politics out of the decision making process and also eliminate the Turnpike Commission. The Turnpike tolls have gooten to be ridiculous and it is still a second class highway. Why isn't it part of PennDOT and why do they need that building in Harrisburg?

[Tractor Face]

Originally Posted by quaddriver

No, the problem in PA is there are virtually no major N-S major roadways in PA.


I79 is too far west to service the meat of the state, who REALLY drives Pitt-Erie?, I99 connects NOTHING to PSU, but at least you can now get to PSU instead of 2 lane semi-controlled crashes in the winter, and I81 which is really a pass thru to get to NYC without using jersey. since the railroads up north are all but pulled up, the 4 lane gets you to the oil, gas, timber and autoparts with 60 miles or more less driving than I79

"I79 is too far west to service the meat of the state"

Yeah, I79 is too far west, it would have been better in the middle of the state where people drive north to......ahh...wait....uhh.... sure there are towns there...somewhere.......anywhere....just where is the meat of the state? Altoona, Johnstown, other like booming metropolises?

[bradjl2009]

Originally Posted by Tractor Face

"I79 is too far west to service the meat of the state"

Yeah, I79 is too far west, it would have been better in the middle of the state where people drive north to......ahh...wait....uhh.... sure there are towns there...somewhere.......anywhere....just where is the meat of the state? Altoona, Johnstown, other like booming metropolises?

Yeah I still have no idea this person was talking about and think it's insane they don't think I-79 should travel to the 4th most populated city in the state.

[gmagoo]

Originally Posted by TommyMaddoxWasTheMan

when looking at this route I discovered a cool little fact (to me at least). You can ride a bicycle on a dedicated right-of-way from Kittanning to Brookville.

I assume this is part of the Pittsburgh-to-Erie trail that’s under development. Will be really great when they extend the trail from Pgh all the way up to Kitanning to connect with this.

As far as the proposal for a highway goes, it really does make sense. I am an environmentalist but I also like to drive, and I think full automation with self driving cars, etc, is far enough off that we are still in the last generation or two of road building. I expect things like the Southern Beltway/MFE to be completed, and probably things like the 219 and 99 extensions north to the NY border, (and 28 to brookville). THEN we should finally be at the end of this era of spending billions on new roads through our green space

I have a brother who recycles everything and likes to think of himself as an environmentalist. He drives to Erie to play cards with his friends once a month. He`s not an environmentalist IMO.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by gmagoo

I have a brother who recycles everything and likes to think of himself as an environmentalist. He drives to Erie to play cards with his friends once a month. He`s not an environmentalist IMO.

Best example of the "fake environmentalist" thing is the tiny house movement. A lot of buyers claim they want to do so to reduce their carbon footprint. But between the fact that tiny houses are typically only placed in rural areas (for reasons often to do with utility hookups) necessitating driving everywhere, along with the carbon cost of a new-build home versus moving into an existing one, they end up expending far more resources than if they bought a normal, dated, kinda small home close in to a city.

[SlurmsMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Best example of the "fake environmentalist" thing is the tiny house movement. A lot of buyers claim they want to do so to reduce their carbon footprint. But between the fact that tiny houses are typically only placed in rural areas (for reasons often to do with utility hookups) necessitating driving everywhere, along with the carbon cost of a new-build home versus moving into an existing one, they end up expending far more resources than if they bought a normal, dated, kinda small home close in to a city.

I don't know about tiny houses but I'd love a small cabin on about 10 acres someday. I'd use solar, use a composting toilet, run my grey water into a filtering system, have a large garden. I wouldn't do it for environmental reasons, mainly to save money, but I'm sure my footprint would be much smaller than those in suburbia.

[SlurmsMcKenzie]

I think turning 28 into an expressway is unnecessary. Spend the money completing the last troublesome link of 22 (the 15 or so miles around Murrysville) and you probably help 50% of the drivers that would take the new 28 anyways.

[TommyMaddoxWasTheMan]

Originally Posted by xdv8

You don't sound like and environmentalist and it's incredibly naive to think they will stop building new roads. Why would it be the end of spending billions? PA is in poor financial condition and we cannot adequately maintain our existing infrastructure, among other things. Every new project is irresponsible.

So because I “expect” these roads to be completed and I think some are necessary, that’s not compatible with caring about the environment?

Eventually they will stop building new roads. It’s not like it happens all that often these days anyways. Maybe reconstruction or adding Lanes, very rarely do they start from scratch and build something completely new: and when they do it’s at the end of 30 some years of planning in most cases.

[TommyMaddoxWasTheMan]

Originally Posted by gmagoo

I have a brother who recycles everything and likes to think of himself as an environmentalist. He drives to Erie to play cards with his friends once a month. He`s not an environmentalist IMO.

Im sure he’s at least conscious of the fact that his driving hurts the environment and would choose a greener method if one existed/he could afford it.

It’s not fake environmentalism, this notion that to be an environmentalist means you’re a hypocrite every time you drive a car or fly in a plane is laughable. The very first step is acknowledging there is a problem; then you consider possible alternatives or small ways to start changing your life to address that problem.

He recycles everything? Great, if more were like him we would have a lot of this plastic problem solved. We’d still have to solve that problem of dirty vehicles, but at least our oceans and roadsides would be a lot cleaner.

Drop the smug attitude that is propagated by Fox News and the like that if you claim to be an environmentalist you have to be “all in” or you’re a hypocrite.