Downtown Population increased 25% since 2000 (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: apartments, neighborhoods, buying)

[Hopes]

Landlords like chances for growing population in Downtown area - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

[Ron.]

It's probably a good chance to take. I saw a nice peice on Bloomberg today about the re-awakeing of Pitt.



Ron

Originally Posted by Hopes

Landlords like chances for growing population in Downtown area - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

[BrianTH]

As gas prices continue to head up toward $3/gallon (and who knows where they will stop), I'm going to guess this trend continues. Plus, the more people who live Downtown, the nicer it is likely to become for residents.

[pman]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

As gas prices continue to head up toward $3/gallon (and who knows where they will stop), I'm going to guess this trend continues. Plus, the more people who live Downtown, the nicer it is likely to become for residents.

It's more than just gas prices, I think it's becoming more acceptable, even desirable to live downtown. It's just a different way of life. Interestingly, the business only downtown is a recent addition to the world scene itself, dating back only to the late 19th c, then they became abandoned, now they're reach back to the early 19th when people lived there. in some ways, technology has made it nicer to live downtown...cleaner burning vehicles (no horse poop), electricity, AC, etc. I also think that the fascination with cars, for some, is ending. cars are extremely useful tools but a lot of people don't want to spend their life in them these days.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by pman

It's more than just gas prices, I think it's becoming more acceptable, even desirable to live downtown. It's just a different way of life. Interestingly, the business only downtown is a recent addition to the world scene itself, dating back only to the late 19th c, then they became abandoned, now they're reach back to the early 19th when people lived there. in some ways, technology has made it nicer to live downtown...cleaner burning vehicles (no horse poop), electricity, AC, etc. I also think that the fascination with cars, for some, is ending. cars are extremely useful tools but a lot of people don't want to spend their life in them these days.

Are you sure about that? The European cities I visited all had a "Cathedral Square" with a cathedral that was built 500 years ago or so. There were shops and restaurants around it. People don't live there, at least not in any apprecialbe numbers.

ETA: These "squares" are huge and go on for blocks.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Katiana

The European cities I visited all had a "Cathedral Square" with a cathedral that was built 500 years ago or so. There were shops and restaurants around it. People don't live there, at least not in any apprecialbe numbers.

They certainly lived in those areas back a couple centuries. In towns, there was basically no such thing as a shop or restaurant that didn't have people also living in the same buildings, and they would cram into spaces we would consider totally unacceptable.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

They certainly lived in those areas back a couple centuries. In towns, there was basically no such thing as a shop or restaurant that didn't have people also living in the same buildings, and they would cram into spaces we would consider totally unacceptable.

Well, I guess that is the key. And I did leave allowance in my post for a few people living in these business districts. I was thinking of people living "above the store", for example.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Katiana

And I did leave allowance in my post for a few people living in these business districts. I was thinking of people living "above the store", for example.

Yep, the standard was something like four-story buildings without spaces in between along narrow streets, and people packed into the upper stories. Cathedrals and squares also tended to have a lot sheds and carts and such around them, with more people using those for shelter. As I recall, studies have found the median population density in these towns was something like 100 people per acre, which is about the same as modern Manhattan!

[pman]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Are you sure about that? The European cities I visited all had a "Cathedral Square" with a cathedral that was built 500 years ago or so. There were shops and restaurants around it. People don't live there, at least not in any apprecialbe numbers.

ETA: These "squares" are huge and go on for blocks.

yeah In Philadelphia, prior to the late 19th, you still largely lived at your place of business (although living spaces had already increased in size). Downtowns weren't possible until the railroad and then the electric streetcar.

[oh_hey]

I have to say that with the right building and situation, living in a downtown area is much better for anyone that isnt a farmer or wild man.

The way I see it is that if you live in the 'burbs, you have land that would be better used for farming, have to drive everywhere because nothing is in walking distance save maybe a pool or park in planned communities, and spend large amounts of money on gardening, cutting grass, fuel and car maintenance for drives to your job - or your a slave to the bus/T schedule

Usually the rebuttal I hear for living in the 'burbs is that people do better and are less angry when separated and have their own space. In most neighborhoods you're separated by a couple feet from your neighbors making it somewhat quieter for you - until you open your windows, then all of that separation is gone. Plus the added road rage of having to drive down busy roads and taking congested highways to get anywhere good negates anything saved by having that separation at home.

The best case scenario - we would see a return to the cities. As stated above, this isnt like days of old where people throw their bucket of feces out their windows. We have sewer systems, parking garages, AC units, etc. If architects could give us well insulated apartments to keep noise and neighbors out, there is no reason why someone that has a desk job needs land to mow.

Sure its nice to have a space for the kids to play in the 'burbs, but have a maintained modern park with a playground is much more space effective then buying your own backyard equipment to see use a couple times a week for a couple years.

okay /rant.