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Old 07-16-2010, 11:44 AM
 
Location: The Woods
18,358 posts, read 26,499,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Actually, in deciding the merits of Texas v. White, the court held that the Constitution did not permit states to seced from the United States, and that the ordinances of secession, and all the acts of the legislatures within seceding states intended to give effect to such ordinances, were "absolutely null".

An Act of Congress would not be secession. It would be dissolution.
TX v White is baseless opinion by Chase, he ignored the 10th Amendment, took quotes from the Articles of Confederation out of context, etc.
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Old 07-16-2010, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,077,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
TX v White is baseless opinion by Chase, he ignored the 10th Amendment, took quotes from the Articles of Confederation out of context, etc.
Your opinion is noted.

Too bad then Texas v. White remains "good law" by definition. But it does.
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Old 07-16-2010, 12:47 PM
 
Location: The Woods
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Your opinion is noted.

Too bad then Texas v. White remains "good law" by definition. But it does.
The commentary on secession is dicta anyways, so it's non-binding.
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Old 07-16-2010, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
The commentary on secession is dicta anyways, so it's non-binding.
Do not confuse dicta with ratio dicidendi.
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Old 07-16-2010, 12:50 PM
 
Location: The Woods
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Do not confuse dicta with ratio dicidendi.
It's dicta.
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Old 07-16-2010, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
It's dicta.
Frankly... that's not your call.
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Old 07-16-2010, 01:09 PM
 
Location: The Woods
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Frankly... that's not your call.
I don't have to. It's been studied and debated by legal scholars and historians for over 140 years. Furthermore, the ruling had zero impact on the legal matters after the war: the Congress treated the states as conquered territory under military rule not as states, in contradiction to Chase's claims the states never left the union.
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Old 07-16-2010, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,077,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
I don't have to. It's been studied and debated by legal scholars and historians for over 140 years. Furthermore, the ruling had zero impact on the legal matters after the war: the Congress treated the states as conquered territory under military rule not as states, in contradiction to Chase's claims the states never left the union.
Again, your opinions are noted.

Texas v. White remains "good law" by definition.
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Old 07-19-2010, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Earth
17,440 posts, read 28,607,009 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
That should put an end to the debate (if in fact there ever was a real debate) right there. The odds of Congress giving consent for a state to secede are somewhere in the vicinity of Slim and None.
A Republican Congress could very well give consent for California to secede as that would make it considerably more difficult for a Democratic presidential candidate to prevail in the Electoral College.
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Old 07-20-2010, 02:10 PM
 
10,239 posts, read 19,610,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
I don't have to. It's been studied and debated by legal scholars and historians for over 140 years. Furthermore, the ruling had zero impact on the legal matters after the war: the Congress treated the states as conquered territory under military rule not as states, in contradiction to Chase's claims the states never left the union.
Exactly right!

The Texas v. White case involved bond sales, not the right of secession per se. In order to get to the ruling they did, the majority of SCOTUS of the time, had to "prove" Texas had never left the Union. However, since that was not the original issue, the explanation they came up with was "dicta" and thus not binding in the realm of stare decisis, nor anything else.

As it is, no court has ever addressed the issue of secession, directly.
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