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NY has MANY mosques and community centers. It could be argued that it doesn't need an additional one. The LOCATION of this center is the problem. It could be moved so it wouldn't be spitting in the face of those who died there. Moderate muslims would understand this. To someone who just wants to have a peaceful place to pray, would it really make a difference if it was 1/2 mile north of this location? (Mind you it would accessible by the same subway and bus lines so that wouldn't make a difference).
NYC is one of the most tolerant cities in the world. It welcomes everyone. People just want this center in a different location. What is so wrong about that?
Remember though, you really should try to practice what you preach to others. Ask the city council of Lake Zurich to reach out to the inner city youth or Muslim leaders of Chicago and offer them a place to have a cultural center. Lets see if your fellow "Zurichians" would be as supportive as you.
Bold: What exactly am I preaching to others? That this already proposed community center should be build no matter the protests? How does that translate to me needing to ask my city council to build a community center here (which we already have I believe, the YMCA)? I can see it translating in the way that I would have to support a community center if one was built in town, which I would support that. I didn't propose the community center in New York so I'm not going to propose anything here.
Red: There is nothing wrong with that. But people can't always get what they want, but sometimes they get what they need (a community center in lower Manhattan).
Blue: If this was actually a full-blown Mosque, you would have some ground to argue this. But because this is just a community center with a Muslim prayer area in it (We don't even know how big that area is yet in the building), this is hardly spitting in the face of New Yorkers. Hell, they have a freaking Memorial/silent meditation room in for the victims of 9/11 so people are getting just a little too hurt about something that shouldn't be that big of a deal. The reason people are still pissed is because they still think this is just going to be one big Mosque with a golden dome or something. The MSM is intentionally being deceptive as hell.
I wouldn't want some B.S. religiously-motivated construction of any kind going on at Ground Zero, let alone a mosque or church or statue or a freaking incense-burning prayer booth.
I wouldn't want some B.S. religiously-motivated construction of any kind going on at Ground Zero, let alone a mosque or church or statue or a freaking incense-burning prayer booth.
LEAVE. IT. ALONE.
Except for the crosses that are or that were on ground zero right? Crosses are a representation of Christianity last time I checked just like the Star of David is for Jews and the Crescent Moon (I believe) represents Muslims. I don't have a problem with the crosses their (like some here were beginning to think) but as you say there should be ANY religiously-motivated statues on ground zero.
The main problem with Islam is that it is not just a religion.
It's a very strict freedom-curtailing doctrine. I hope you know how the word translates into English.
It's not going to stop permeating all aspects of life if not stopped.
Call it fear if you want. I call it common sense.
I call it Christians (rightfully) terrified of being slain by the very sword they've been using in our country. It didn't make them right doing it, it won't make Muslims right doing it, and the atheists/ non Christians in America have every right to be concerned if the laws of this nation are insisted to be be Christian.
Stubborn fact remains that the Koran didn't change and according to the very book that defines them as a people I'm still a subhuman.
Except for the crosses that are or that were on ground zero right? Crosses are a representation of Christianity last time I checked just like the Star of David is for Jews and the Crescent Moon (I believe) represents Muslims. I don't have a problem with the crosses their (like some here were beginning to think) but as you say there should be ANY religiously-motivated statues on ground zero.
Crosses were there to honor the dead because those dead were christian. You believe we should honor the terrorists lives? Am I hearing this right? I think you really need to choose your words more carefully.
Bold: What exactly am I preaching to others? That this already proposed community center should be build no matter the protests? How does that translate to me needing to ask my city council to build a community center here (which we already have I believe, the YMCA)? I can see it translating in the way that I would have to support a community center if one was built in town, which I would support that. I didn't propose the community center in New York so I'm not going to propose anything here.
Red: There is nothing wrong with that. But people can't always get what they want, but sometimes they get what they need (a community center in lower Manhattan).
Blue: If this was actually a full-blown Mosque, you would have some ground to argue this. But because this is just a community center with a Muslim prayer area in it (We don't even know how big that area is yet in the building), this is hardly spitting in the face of New Yorkers. Hell, they have a freaking Memorial/silent meditation room in for the victims of 9/11 so people are getting just a little too hurt about something that shouldn't be that big of a deal. The reason people are still pissed is because they still think this is just going to be one big Mosque with a golden dome or something. The MSM is intentionally being deceptive as hell.
Daily Herald | Gun store plans have some Lake Zurich residents concerned (http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=390943 - broken link)
How'd you feel about the gun store in your old post office? Did you protest against the community center type establishment of NRA members? A place where non gun owners could be educated about guns, but not forced to shoot one or own one. You know, an educational center like the Mosque is claiming to be. I'm sure some of the young Chicagoans would benefit from some shooting lessons up in Lake Zurich. They are killing each other like flies, with many innocent people caught in the crossfire. Based on the numbers of teens killed by gunfire in Chicago, there seems to be a NEED for an educational program that the gun shop offers, so I guess we should say the h3ll with what your community may want.
Did you think the location (residential area as per the story ) was the right place for it? Were you okay with the Board making the decision on their own without taking into consideration what the public thinks.
Maybe this will help. But first understand that through history, and all over the world Muslims have built Mosques in strategic locations in order to symbolize their conquest of other cultures. This particular organization is named for one such Mosque found in Cordoba Spain. This group also has ties to terrorist organizations.
And by the way, there are Constitutional questions with regard to such issues because Islam by its nature violates the rights of others - particularly women who are de facto slaves in their culture. These are issues the courts will need to address soon.
Fact time:
This particular organization is named for one such Mosque found in Cordoba Spain.
During the centuries-long rule of the Iberian Peninsula by Moors, or Muslims, the minorities of Jews and Christians were free to worship as they pleased. In 1492, after ten years of war, the Muslim ruler surrendered the keys to The Alhambra to Ferdinand and Isabella, aka "The Catholic Monarchs."
Ferdinand and Isabella then proceeded to proclaim that Muslims and Jews must convert or go into exile. After that, they set upon sniffing out who was only pretending to convert and then tortured and executed them. This little exercise was known as The Spanish Inquisition.
The mosque at Cordoba was indeed originally built at the site of a Christian Visigoth Church. After the ReConquest, Izzy and Ferdinand turned it back into a Catholic Church.
Sorry, but this is history. It doesn't scare me. And those Berbers sure had some kickass architects:
This group also has ties to terrorist organizations.
Daisy Kahn, wife of the imam of the mosque, has an uncle who was once some kind of leader in a mosque on Long Island that probably has members who have ties to terrorist activity. I don't know why we don't have her tied to a stake already with flames licking at her feet.
And by the way, there are Constitutional questions with regard to such issues because Islam by its nature violates the rights of others - particularly women who are de facto slaves in their culture.
And here we have the definition of ignorance and prejudice. Somebody either doesn't know or won't learn that there is no one Muslim culture, but that the way the religion is practiced or used to support cultural practices varies from country to country. There are highly-educated Muslim women in business in this country and in other countries. There are women in government in some predominantly Muslim countries. Afghanistan, of course, is not one of those countries. To state broadly that women are de facto slaves to all Muslims is an ignorant way of thought not much different from the practices of such a culture.
I've heard this analogy in another context, but it applies quite well here too.
The constitution is not a suicide pact ... and the founding fathers included the first amendment in order to avoid having the federal government adopt and compel Americans to observe a National religion. This was in response to the experience of England, and the church of England (Catholic Church). But it was not their intent, nor was the constitution designed to offer a back door for religious conquest, OBVIOUSLY.
Aside from the obvious and well documented core doctrines which are fundamentally opposed and hostile to the constitution, it's core principle of conversion to Islam or death to the non-believer (infidel) is a clear violation of the law, common and constitutional. And, it's command to it's followers that Sharia law is supreme, and all man made laws be rejected ... the Islamic religion is openly seditious and incompatible with American constitutional law, and therefore cannot enjoy constitutional protection for that reason. In other words, the constitution cannot violate it's own laws in the application of constitutional protections. Any law applied that violates another law automatically renders such law as null, and not law.
That you as a person or an institution have the freedom of speech doesn't afford the ability to directly threaten someone's life, for example, or threaten to do harm to another .... this type of speech is not protected because the language shows the promise to violate the law.
That Islam makes such demands on their followers ... convert infidels to Islam or murder them ... makes Islam an unlawful organization that should be banned nationwide, lest they reject such commands which fundamentalists would never do.
How bout' that constitution ... it thought of everything, except being more deliberate in it's language so that liberals could better understand.
Crosses were there to honor the dead because those dead were christian. You believe we should honor the terrorists lives? Am I hearing this right? I think you really need to choose your words more carefully.
The terrorists weren't the only Muslims to have died that day in the towers. Just saying.
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