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Old 08-11-2010, 01:21 PM
 
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American allies the Sons of Iraq being offered more money by al–Qaida to switch sides

Fears of al
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Old 08-11-2010, 01:54 PM
 
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This is exactly why freedom is only won by those who want it and shed their own blood to attain and keep it. Freedom handed over without sacrifice by those being freed is not earned, and thus, not valued. Those who value freedom will not sell it at ANY price.
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Old 08-11-2010, 02:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
This is exactly why freedom is only won by those who want it and shed their own blood to attain and keep it. Freedom handed over without sacrifice by those being freed is not earned, and thus, not valued. Those who value freedom will not sell it at ANY price.
I see it as a pathetic and despicable waste of lives, energy and money better spent elsewhere...namely here in the USA. If the Iraqis wanted to topple Saddam, it was their place to do so. They did not need or ask for our interference under the guise of WMD's. The only ones that have gained from this are the war profiteers...period!
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Old 08-11-2010, 02:26 PM
 
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Freedom handed over without sacrifice by those being freed is not earned, and thus, not valued.
The problem is, for a lot of Sunnis in Iraq, their "freedoms" were actually reduced quite a lot after Saddam was overthrown. After the overthrow, they had to deal with new hazards like Shia death squads and hostile security forces that many saw as Iranian-funded occupiers.

That made it easy for violent extremist groups to recruit everyone from suicide bombers to people who sit in the background and watch vehicle movements with binoculars and relay that information to people planting explosive devices.
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Old 08-11-2010, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
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This just can't be...Bush declared Mission Accomplished years ago!
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Old 08-11-2010, 02:28 PM
 
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Well, when you tell your enemy the exact date your Big Guns are leaving the country, what else do you expect?
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Old 08-11-2010, 02:32 PM
 
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Well, when you tell your enemy the exact date your Big Guns are leaving the country, what else do you expect?
No, it's highest bidder wins.
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Old 08-11-2010, 02:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
The problem is, for a lot of Sunnis in Iraq, their "freedoms" were actually reduced quite a lot after Saddam was overthrown. After the overthrow, they had to deal with new hazards like Shia death squads and hostile security forces that many saw as Iranian-funded occupiers.

That made it easy for violent extremist groups to recruit everyone from suicide bombers to people who sit in the background and watch vehicle movements with binoculars and relay that information to people planting explosive devices.
Multiculturalism is a killer in any society. The problems in Middle East and their history violent religious and tribal extremism have never been solved and likely never will be. We should have turned that place into a glass factory more than a decade ago or left it alone. We didn't learn from history. Fight to win political correctness be pushed aside or don't fight at all. Hearts and minds of those in poverty are easily bought, as is evident, by the highest bidder.
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Old 08-11-2010, 02:45 PM
 
23,838 posts, read 23,131,520 times
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Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
Multiculturalism is a killer in any society. The problems in Middle East and their history violent religious and tribal extremism have never been solved and likely never will be. We should have turned that place into a glass factory more than a decade ago or left it alone. We didn't learn from history. Fight to win political correctness be pushed aside or don't fight at all. Hearts and minds of those in poverty are easily bought, as is evident, to the highest bidder.
That's right. In Iraq, tribalism runs very deep, all the way down to the familial nucleus. In other words, Arab ancestry is very much rooted in arrogance and ego. Tribal insults are like insults on your family. The resulting vengance wittles away what little cohesion exists and makes being an Iraqi citizen an abstract. The tribe always comes first.

This is 10 times more pronounced in Afghanistan. We consider Afghani's to be Afghani's. But the Afghan's themselves hardly hold a cohesive nationalist view.
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Old 08-11-2010, 02:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
I see it as a pathetic and despicable waste of lives, energy and money better spent elsewhere...namely here in the USA. If the Iraqis wanted to topple Saddam, it was their place to do so. ........
I actually agree with you for once. However, once we acted on bad information we had a responsibility to stabilize the nation and do the best we could for the people.
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