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Old 09-13-2010, 05:48 AM
 
1,291 posts, read 2,895,640 times
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Nancy is that you? It's OK to read it, it's not a healthcare bill!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
Sorry, I'm not reading all of that.
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:01 AM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,159,646 times
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Weekender1968, your support for Tea Party candidates and your faith that they of all people would somehow turn anything around is inexplicable in such an otherwise good post. They have no new ideas and less clue how to go about effecting change of any sort. Any who get in will simply be meat. This wave of misguided, half-baked populist anger expects to propel these TP candidates into Washington, who if successful will be met there by the realities of running a country. Then they'll be faced with a choice: explain to their befuddled constituents that come to find out Obama isn't really a Socialist bent on destroying the country and so on, or as most politicians wind up doing, try to keep up the pretense that they're doing their best, loyally fighting the good fight. I can't imagine anyone could really believe these people can make any sort of change, to anything.
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:21 AM
 
Location: KCMO Metro Area
199 posts, read 319,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
Weekender1968, your support for Tea Party candidates and your faith that they of all people would somehow turn anything around is inexplicable in such an otherwise good post. They have no new ideas and less clue how to go about effecting change of any sort. Any who get in will simply be meat. This wave of misguided, half-baked populist anger expects to propel these TP candidates into Washington, who if successful will be met there by the realities of running a country. Then they'll be faced with a choice: explain to their befuddled constituents that come to find out Obama isn't really a Socialist bent on destroying the country and so on, or as most politicians wind up doing, try to keep up the pretense that they're doing their best, loyally fighting the good fight. I can't imagine anyone could really believe these people can make any sort of change, to anything.
You have misunderstood my statement.

What I said was. "I agree with the tea party demand of ousting all incumbents" I have not supported any candidate in this, merely a concept.
And in the very next statement, I also said, "But if "We The People" don't stand up and pay attention, the next round of politicians are going to repeat the same process all over again."

So obviously I have no faith in any candidate to change anything, that will have to come from US, and educated and involved PUBLIC. Washington is merely going to operate in their best interest as long as WE allow them to.
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:28 AM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,159,646 times
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But what do you think "Washington" is made up of, if not a bunch of people most of whom came in on the same silly pie-in-the-sky rhetoric that you have faith in now ("Time for a change, oust all incumbents"), who have since gotten professional? This "grassroots" gaggle of hopefuls have already been evaluated, bought and sold, that's how they made it as far as they have.
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:35 AM
 
9,229 posts, read 8,551,670 times
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Do yourself a big favor. Stop thinking of yourself and others in categories. It's useful for statisticians, but in creating your world view you lump too much together and make wrong assessments about individuals.

See the person, not a label. You will be happier, and the person will, too.
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Old 09-13-2010, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,791,864 times
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I think the excellent essay by the OP is an example of how effective the propaganda has been in separating most of us from the economic aristocrats that own and control the government. As I mentioned in an essay on the "Haves and Have Not's", the Haves (as defined as people with enough private sector investment income that they do not have to work) and Have More's actually control the economy and the country for their own benefit. This effective aristocracy acts just like any other and does its best to keep membership closely restricted. The existence of the closely guided Tea Party is one example of this protective propaganda campaign. The justifiable anger of the working and middle classes that have had their meager share of the pie systematically looted had been artfully redirected from the aristocrats of the upper 1% that direct the overall economy to the other 99% that are in the same sinking boat. The poor and immigrants are not the problem. The meager amount of money begrudgingly spent on welfare is not the problem. The special consideration given to the Haves and Have Mores is the problem!

The things received by the owners of this economy range from unnecessarily low taxes that still leave them rich enough to not need to work to insane foreign policy designed to “counter terrorism” by transferring enormous amounts of money from the productive class to the ownership class by spending it on military industries owned by the Have Mores. There are other massive wealth transfers upward in this economy such as the ethanol subsidy that takes tax money and transfers it to the agricultural finance industry. The most egregious example of control by the Haves and Have Mores was the bailout of the huge money center banks at the expense of already over extended home owners. The people that should have been bailed out, single home owners with fraudulent loans were left hanging in the wind, were not while the owners of the financial system that created fraudulent “tranched” mortgage securities were protected from loss.

This is the result of the system that is built, owned and controlled by the few that are the Haves and Have Mores. I am neither and, like many in the Tea Bag Party, am angry at the systematic looting of not only the wealth generated by people like me but the ever decreasing opportunity for the childern of the workers and middle class to participate in the future economy with any assurance of success. They are facing a continuously shrinking economy while their generation of Haves will be expecting to soon become Have Mores.

We have to change this system if we even want to have prosperity for most and not just a few. We have to realize that the first step in winning a fight, and this is a fight, is recognizing your enemy. Our enemy is not immigrants, poor rural and ghetto dwellers, unionized teachers, mulatto Presidents, liberals, or others of the Have Nots. The enemy is the Haves and Have Mores that deceive us into fighting ourselves and not our enemy.
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Old 09-13-2010, 09:12 AM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,159,646 times
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I'd like to tack on to Greg's excellent post,

The Great Divergence and the decline of labor. (1) - By Timothy Noah - Slate Magazine

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Old 09-13-2010, 11:00 AM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
10,219 posts, read 15,931,403 times
Reputation: 7206
Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
TomLennox, I really liked your thoughtful post but I have a couple of quibbles that maybe you can help me with. Why do you say, or think, that only "the liberal media" wanted to understand the motivation of the 9/11 hijackers? It's not unpatriotic to wonder "How did this happen?" It's human nature. Millions of people drew the conclusion you're saying was solely projected by "the liberal media." (You may not like the unflattering answer but come to find out those conclusions were right: they weren't "jealous of our freedoms," etc., after all. This is not "the liberal media"'s fault.)

You go on yourself to observe for yourself the actions and words at the concert, and you're sympathetic to those guys and make a plea: "maybe we really should try to understand [it from their point of view]." Why, because it's also your point of view? Though yes, we should try to understand all points of view, shouldnt we? Ya think?

Also I have to ask, why do you say Obama "has divided the country more and more"? Do you mean perceptions of Obama? The way the guys at the concert see him, the way Fox viewers see him, the way -- I've got to say, clear headed rational adults who were aware of politics before 2008 see him?

If you could clarify this I'd appreciate. I really liked your post, though. Thanks.
Barack Obama, both his past and his present, is one of radicalism and disconnect with the mainstream, and he has shown little interest in hiding that. He sat in Jeremiah Wright's church for 20 years and never questioned his preachings. One must wonder what sort of church this was, that after 20 years a parishoner has learned to hate white people and Jews (go on you Tube and type in jeremiah wright Jews), yet still has not learned that abortion is wrong. I don't think he is a Muslim now, but I believe he was until he met Jeremiah Wright, and that it took a man like Wright to lead him away from Islam. His health care is basically redistribution of wealth, and shows his desire to move our country toward a more socialist direction, more similar to Britain, France, and other European countries.

All the people Obama has associated with....his wife who wasn't proud of America until recently, Ayers who was a terrorist and should be in prison now, Eric Holder and his radical past. And now especially him appointing Sonia Sotomayor, a Hispanic racist who supports race based affirmative action and racial quotas, and who supports illegal immigration to the Supreme Court. And also Judge Kagan, who hated the US military, wanted to ban recruiters from campus, and is radically pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage. Even in his handling of the thing with Gates (who I think is a racist and a radical) shows...he immediately sided with Gates without knowing all the facts.

Now I've not read Obama's books, but I've also read that in them, there is a lot about racial identity, racial politics, and religious identity. I honestly do not care what skin color a candidate is as long as he/she shares my values. I would vote for Bobby Jindal, Condoleeza Rice or Michael Steele any day, in fact I have voted for Michael Steele in every election in which he ran. Its the whole package with Obama....his support for illegal immigration and abortion, how he began funding against for groups that perform abortions abroad, his history in Indonesia, his history with Jeremiah Wright (who in his own words said we deserved 9-11), Gates, Ayers, etc. I need to look up specifics on Eric Holder's controversial past too.

70% of Americans nationwide support the Arizona law yet he is against it. The news never covers the stories of Americans who have suffered economically because of illegal immigration. And let's not forget Obama's own quote about small town Americans, as if they don't have a legitimate reason to be upset about jobs being outsourced to India and China, or about illegal immigrants bringing crime and drugs to this country.
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:08 AM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
10,219 posts, read 15,931,403 times
Reputation: 7206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inoxkeeper View Post
Nancy is that you? It's OK to read it, it's not a healthcare bill!
Speaking of which Eric Holder has read the entire bill, yet never cared to read the 11 pages of Arizona's illegals law before commenting against it, just like Obama didn't get the facts straight before siding with Professor Gates.

Bush certainly made his mistakes, but under him our country was a safer and freer place. Most of 9-11 was planned druing the Clinton administration, when Clinton was busy helping Muslims in Kosovo and Bosnia (though NATO also did intervene to prevent a mass influx of refugees to Germany and Italy....but a mass influx of illegal Mexicans here is ok....) and trying to force the Israelis to give more and more concessions to the Palestinians.
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:13 AM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
10,219 posts, read 15,931,403 times
Reputation: 7206
I also hope more Hispanic AMericans and American Muslims should stand up and speak out against illegal immigration and terrorism. The case with the school in California banning the US flag on Cinco de Mayo in fear of violence was especially terrible and there should have been more criticism from the Hispanic community. Also more Latinos should speak out against their leaders who openly sympathize with illegal immigrants and oppose any measures to secure America's borders. I also plan to boycott that Machete movie which openly supports illegal Mexican immigrants.

I also wish more Muslims, especially American Muslims, would stop making excuses for terrorism, stop defending Hamas and Hezbollah in Israel, and speak out against having the mosque built at Ground Zero. It is offensive and disrespectful to the victim to have a mosque there, and one must question their agenda when even a buyout from Donald Trump isn't enough to convince them to move it even 5 blocks away. Why do they insist on having it on the site?
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