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The title of the thread is meant to spark debate. So many times, I hear conservatives adamantly against changing the status quo.
EXAMPLES:
Free-market capitalism (let's not change that).
Health care (let's not change that).
Public Transit (let's not change that).
The way our government is run (let's not change that).
The way politicians get elected (let's not change that).
Etc., etc., etc.
There are many more I could come up with. Point is, without progressives, nothing would ever change. EVER! Realize that America was founded by a group of "radical" progressive "terrorists". Realize that great amounts of money and time and effort were put into changing many things. I don't see how a "let's just sit on our hands and do nothing" strategy ever pays off. I understand the need to be fiscally responsible. I understand the need to get rid of government "waste". But the way conservatives go about it is incredibly wrong to me. Try, just once, to look out for your fellow man/woman.
Not everyone gets a fair shake. In fact, just about nobody gets to start from an even playing field. And the main pervasive theme I gather from conservatism (personal responsibility) doesn't ring true in reality. The amount of work one puts in when compared with another very rarely equals itself. Person A works very little and gets a lot because of the position they were in to begin with while Person B works an incredible amount and has very little to show for it.
The entire system is broken and conservatives don't want to change any of it. Why? Because they like it the way it is. It helps them. Not a single average person should be supporting that. Don't vote Republican. Don't vote Democrat. Vote Progressive. Because ultimately, they're the only ones with the people in mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan83
Most of the things that are broken in our country were enacted by progressives. Where do you think our broken health care system came from? Not the free market. Employer-based health insurance is a monster that was created by the government. By making employer-provided health insurance basically tax-free, "progressives", whether Republican or Democrat, doomed us to our current situation.
The housing market is another example. The Federal Reserve creates a housing bubble with easy-money policies. The bubble bursts. Oh, but here come the progressives to solve the problems created by the housing collapse! Wow, thanks. Next time, don't create a housing bubble in the first place.
The key is that the majority of politicians (from both parties) ARE progressives. They want to solve societal problems with an expanding government. They just disagree on how to do it.
michgan83 is right, the progressives have broken things in this nation, not conservatives. do we need regulations? yes, but they cannot be such a burden that business has to take manufacturing overseas to be competitive.
conservatives recognize the need for making changes to the system, but rather than make knee jerk changes willy nilly, we would rather take the time to assess what the changes would do before we make them.
our government system is like a race team, the best ones make one change at a time, and then see if they went in the right direction or not. if not then the change is reversed. the bad teams are the ones that continually make a number of changes at once, and when things dont work out, they make a bunch more changes, and usually get more screwed up. right now the federal government is making a lot of changes all at once, and we are getting all screwed up. we can fix this, but we need to stop making a bunch of changes at once, and get back to our baseline and work from there.
do we need regulations? yes, but they cannot be such a burden that business has to take manufacturing overseas to be competitive.
Let's take a look at regulations. Good idea. Without the "burdening" regulations conservatives love to say progressives establish, there wouldn't be a minimum wage, weekend, 40 hour work week, employer provided health insurance, safety standards, etc.
Without someone to step up and say that things were getting out of hand (example: coal mines in the 1800 and 1900's), a view I'm sure that was thought of as anti-business then, we'd still be in debt to the company store.
Why do companies move jobs overseas? Because they get cheap labor because those countries they move to do don't have quality of life regulations. The majority of the people in these countries can't survive on the pittance they make. They struggle. And lack of regulations leads to companies not having to care whatsoever about the environment they haphazardly pollute and destroy because, again, there are no regulations.
I can guarantee you all those things you talked about that you think are so wonderful are literally bankrupting Europe. The tax rate is around 50% in many countries and that doesn't include the medical which they take too for socialized medicine. You have to make a good 30 Euro and hour just to meet the cost of living. And half of that's gone before you even get to spend it.
Europe is in a slow spiral downwards, while I was there Britain was bailing out Greece, and during British Elections, they were talking about cutting spending themselves before they end up like the rest of Europe. Britian is doing better than most over there, but even they know its gone too far.
Its become a giant monster that is devouring the people it intended to help, and its breaking the governments under its weight.
And most of Europe doesn't exactly have enormous millitary budgets. And it all comes down to Taxes, Social Spending, and Cost of living. All of which are an endless sucking hole taking them down.
The title of the thread is meant to spark debate. So many times, I hear conservatives adamantly against changing the status quo.
EXAMPLES:
Free-market capitalism (let's not change that).
Health care (let's not change that).
Public Transit (let's not change that).
The way our government is run (let's not change that).
The way politicians get elected (let's not change that).
Etc., etc., etc.
There are many more I could come up with. Point is, without progressives, nothing would ever change. EVER! Realize that America was founded by a group of "radical" progressive "terrorists". Realize that great amounts of money and time and effort were put into changing many things. I don't see how a "let's just sit on our hands and do nothing" strategy ever pays off. I understand the need to be fiscally responsible. I understand the need to get rid of government "waste". But the way conservatives go about it is incredibly wrong to me. Try, just once, to look out for your fellow man/woman.
Not everyone gets a fair shake. In fact, just about nobody gets to start from an even playing field. And the main pervasive theme I gather from conservatism (personal responsibility) doesn't ring true in reality. The amount of work one puts in when compared with another very rarely equals itself. Person A works very little and gets a lot because of the position they were in to begin with while Person B works an incredible amount and has very little to show for it.
The entire system is broken and conservatives don't want to change any of it. Why? Because they like it the way it is. It helps them. Not a single average person should be supporting that. Don't vote Republican. Don't vote Democrat. Vote Progressive. Because ultimately, they're the only ones with the people in mind.
The problem with "progressives" is they seem to think their ideas are new...
Were they new when the Soviet Union implemented them? How about Cuba? China? 1930's Germany?
In fact progressive ideas aren't anything new, they're rehashed socialist rhetoric that is the antithesis of what those "radical" progressive "terrorists" were utterly contemptuous with when they found this country. Little by little these Fabian socialist are trying to revert back to government knows best and when the government tells you to lie down, you do it.
What do you think Jefferson meant by this:
Quote:
These, fellow citizens, are the circumstances under which we meet, and we remark with special satisfaction those which under the smiles of Providence result from the skill, industry, and order of our citizens, managing their own affairs in their own way and for their own use, unembarrassed by too much regulation, unoppressed by fiscal exactions.
Does that sound like bid daddy government telling everyone what they should do, think, eat, say, live, see, believe in, not believe in, teach, not teach, fart, blah, blah, blah....
The title of the thread is meant to spark debate. So many times, I hear conservatives adamantly against changing the status quo.
EXAMPLES:
Free-market capitalism (let's not change that).
Health care (let's not change that).
Public Transit (let's not change that).
The way our government is run (let's not change that).
The way politicians get elected (let's not change that).
Etc., etc., etc.
There are many more I could come up with. Point is, without progressives, nothing would ever change. EVER! Realize that America was founded by a group of "radical" progressive "terrorists". Realize that great amounts of money and time and effort were put into changing many things. I don't see how a "let's just sit on our hands and do nothing" strategy ever pays off. I understand the need to be fiscally responsible. I understand the need to get rid of government "waste". But the way conservatives go about it is incredibly wrong to me. Try, just once, to look out for your fellow man/woman.
Not everyone gets a fair shake. In fact, just about nobody gets to start from an even playing field. And the main pervasive theme I gather from conservatism (personal responsibility) doesn't ring true in reality. The amount of work one puts in when compared with another very rarely equals itself. Person A works very little and gets a lot because of the position they were in to begin with while Person B works an incredible amount and has very little to show for it.
The entire system is broken and conservatives don't want to change any of it. Why? Because they like it the way it is. It helps them. Not a single average person should be supporting that. Don't vote Republican. Don't vote Democrat. Vote Progressive. Because ultimately, they're the only ones with the people in mind.
All these things are great, really the are. However, lets take YOUR paycheck and institute them. In fact, lets take all of the LIBERAL/SOCIALIST (you can call it "progressive" if you like, but you are liar) paychecks and pay for these programs. If YOU want to have your entire paycheck devoted to such ideals, great do so. I do not.
And, moreover, I am against YOU and all of the other socialists, FORCING me to to pay for such programs, which I do not want. Nor do I care about. Of course, you are liberal/socialist. You are forward thinking person and know better then the rest; hence, I'll FORCE you into my way of thinking.
Progressives haven't really done anything meaningful or productive in politics except for Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X, and Harvey Milk.
Progressives are exceptional in the liberal arts e.g., Andy Warhol, John Waters, Giorgio Armani, Ellen, Clive Barker, Patricia Cornwell, etc.
One of the progressives pioneered computer science. His name being Alan Turing.
MLK Wasn't a progressive. malcom x did nothing meaningful,but he did do a lot of destructive things. I've never done any research on the rest to say other than progressives use the cover of "liberal arts" so since it is thier baby, they better do well in it! Of course they refuse to accept liberal arts must have taxpayer funding to exist because it is not able to stand on it's own,which should be the first clue their ideas are screwed up!
I can guarantee you all those things you talked about that you think are so wonderful are literally bankrupting Europe. The tax rate is around 50% in many countries and that doesn't include the medical which they take too for socialized medicine. You have to make a good 30 Euro and hour just to meet the cost of living. And half of that's gone before you even get to spend it.
Europe is in a slow spiral downwards, while I was there Britain was bailing out Greece, and during British Elections, they were talking about cutting spending themselves before they end up like the rest of Europe. Britian is doing better than most over there, but even they know its gone too far.
Its become a giant monster that is devouring the people it intended to help, and its breaking the governments under its weight.
And most of Europe doesn't exactly have enormous millitary budgets. And it all comes down to Taxes, Social Spending, and Cost of living. All of which are an endless sucking hole taking them down.
Not to disregard the European crisis, but a more fair comparison would be Canada's situation versus the situation in the US. Canada is definitely more "socialist" than the US, and even with all of their higher tax rates, they somehow they have a better financial outlook than the US. Enlighten us...
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