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That does not answer the question. The fed statute does not list the six as elements of the crime.
It most certainly does answer the question. Re-read the law. Re-read Bronston v US (1973). There is certainly no requirement that judicial tests be specifically enumerated within a statute, and you might have indicated which element of the test you believe not to be supported by the law and trial of it. I can well understand, though not condone, a right-wing desire to try Mr. Clinton by partisan and parochial, rather than legal, standards, but the legal standards themselves remain the same through all of that, and you do them no damage here either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crashcop
Vitter is a hypocrit, however, when faced with a life shattering revelation, he told the truth, in public.
Vitter has encountered these same charges before. He dropped out of the Louisiana governor's race over them in 2002, indicating only that he and his wife were having marital difficulties that made a campaign inappropriate. He faced them again in his 2004 Senate campaign, categorizing them then as absolutely and completely untrue. Caught in the same snare for a third time, he now admits that a serious sin does exist in his past, but claims that he is right with his wife and with God on it, and refuses to discuss the matter further with anyone but them. Following the issuance of his statement, he simply disappeared. There are votes scheduled in the Senate tomorrow. Sen. Jim DeMint has assured that Vitter will materialize for those votes. We shall see. In the meantime, any claims over what a stand-up and honest guy Vitter has been when caught with his hand in the cookie jar seem a bit far-fetched.
It most certainly does answer the question. Re-read the law. Re-read Bronston v US (1973).
Bronston deals with one question, unresponsive answers, that are unresponsive on their face but untrue only by "negative implication." It then puts the burden of questioning on the questioner. Nowhere in Chief Justice Burger's opinion for the majority does it list the 6 elements you have listed. Again I ask, please cite the reference for the elements you have listed, so I can have it, you surely got it from somewhere.
Quote:
Vitter has encountered these same charges before. He dropped out of the Louisiana governor's race over them in 2002, indicating only that he and his wife were having marital difficulties that made a campaign inappropriate. He faced them again in his 2004 Senate campaign, categorizing them then as absolutely and completely untrue. Caught in the same snare for a third time, he now admits that a serious sin does exist in his past, but claims that he is right with his wife and with God on it, and refuses to discuss the matter further with anyone but them. Following the issuance of his statement, he simply disappeared. There are votes scheduled in the Senate tomorrow. Sen. Jim DeMint has assured that Vitter will materialize for those votes. We shall see. In the meantime, any claims over what a stand-up and honest guy Vitter has been when caught with his hand in the cookie jar seem a bit far-fetched.
I never claimed he was a "stand up guy". I stated on this accusation he was honest in public. He does not need to discuss it any further with anyone, but his wife. As far as his public life, IMO, it is time for him to fade into the night, he has lost his right to represent his state through his questionable actions, based on his public stance. He does need to continue working until he resigns, hopefully, sooner than later.
Do you think Vitter will resign? The Governor is a dem and she can appoint a dem to fill his seat until a special election is held.
§1278. Vacancies; United States senator
A. The governor may fill any vacancy in the office of United States senator by appointment. If the United States Senate is in session when the vacancy occurs, the governor shall appoint a senator to fill the vacancy within ten days after receiving official notice of the vacancy.
B. If a vacancy occurs in the office of United States senator and the unexpired term is more than one year, an appointment to fill the vacancy shall be temporary. Any senator so appointed shall serve until his successor is elected at a special election and takes office. Within ten days after receiving official notice of the vacancy, the governor shall issue his proclamation for special election to fill the vacancy for the unexpired term. The special first primary election shall be held four weeks prior to the dates for special primary elections as provided in R.S. 18:402(E)(1), the special second primary election shall be held on the dates as provided for special primary elections in R.S. 18:402(E)(1), and the special general election shall be held on the dates as provided in R.S. 18:402(E)(3). The dates of the qualifying period shall be established by the governor in accordance with this Part. Immediately after issuance of the proclamation, which shall include the dates of the first and second party primary and general elections and the dates of the qualifying period, the governor shall publish the proclamation in the official journal of each parish in which the election is to be held. Within twenty-four hours after its issuance, the governor shall send a copy of the proclamation to the secretary of state. Within twenty-four hours after he receives the copy, the secretary of state shall notify all election officials having any duty to perform in connection with a special election to fill such vacancy, including the parish boards of election supervisors for the parish or parishes in which the vacancy occurred. The election shall be conducted and the returns shall be certified as in regular elections for United States senator.
C. If a vacancy occurs in the office of United States senator and the unexpired term is one year or less, no special election shall be called by the governor and, if a senator is appointed to fill the vacancy, he shall serve for the remainder of the unexpired term, and his successor shall be elected at the next regular election for United States senator.
Bronston deals with one question, unresponsive answers, that are unresponsive on their face but untrue only by "negative implication." It then puts the burden of questioning on the questioner.
Bronston destroyed the general concept of negative implication such that perjury charges cannot be upheld against a witness whose answers are truthful. If a witness under oath and understanding as much does not make a statement that is demonstrably false, the matter ends there. The opinion indeed goes to some length to point out that consideration of whether Bronston intended to deceive the jury should never have been taken up at trial at all. Bronston is a (and perhaps the) seminal case on perjury, and its standards have remained in effect from 1973 to the present time, an interval which comprises every instance upon which President Clinton testified under oath as to anything. With the devotion that many Clinton-bashers tend to profess for strict constructionism, it's a wonder that any of them can raise a finger of protest over Bronston, yet the majority of them behaves as if the decision had never been handed down at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crashcop
Nowhere in Chief Justice Burger's opinion for the majority does it list the 6 elements you have listed. Again I ask, please cite the reference for the elements you have listed, so I can have it, you surely got it from somewhere.
I would suggest that you roll up your sleeves sufficiently to permit the great effort of typing definition of perjury into google and see how often you get back these elements or some variant thereof. Be on the lookout for words such as material, malicious, malignant, and corrupt. The version posted earlier meanwhile came straight out of my little head. These concepts have been stored away up there for quite some time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crashcop
I never claimed he was a "stand up guy". I stated on this accusation he was honest in public.
Re-read your post. You did not posit an array of events and then comment on one in particular. You indicated that when faced with a life shattering revelation, Vitter told the truth in public. It's a little hard to see how a revelation can be so life-shattering when it is being revealed for a third time, and given that Vitter has offered three different public responses to it, it's a little difficult to be so impressed by his sense of honesty.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedNC
I don’t care what party they belong to, how many of each there are, although there is a certain group of dems that have replaced the “father figure” with government assistance.
I haven’t preached about anything nor would I. Hard to say about the “family” values I don’t rate these things and if I did I wouldn’t categorize based on political leanings, but actual actions and results.
All I’m saying is for a republican it is a negative and for democrats they get a pass and are usually congratulated.
I cannot think of a time, recently, when a democrat has gotten a pass and is usually congratulated.
THAT'S SINCE IT IS 99% OF THE TIME, REPUBLICANS GETTING CAUGHT IN THIS STUFF!!!
Location: Moose Jaw, in between the Moose's butt and nose.
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Reputation: 2038
Let him stay, I don't want to see any Dems. stooping to the Republican level and trying to out this guy over something like this.
I bet some of the less radical folks that wanted to see Clinton impeached (I think there were a few dems.) would take back their action if they could after seeing the impeachable stuff that Bush has done in the last 6 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerlily
Do you think Vitter will resign? The Governor is a dem and she can appoint a dem to fill his seat until a special election is held.
§1278. Vacancies; United States senator
A. The governor may fill any vacancy in the office of United States senator by appointment. If the United States Senate is in session when the vacancy occurs, the governor shall appoint a senator to fill the vacancy within ten days after receiving official notice of the vacancy.
B. If a vacancy occurs in the office of United States senator and the unexpired term is more than one year, an appointment to fill the vacancy shall be temporary. Any senator so appointed shall serve until his successor is elected at a special election and takes office. Within ten days after receiving official notice of the vacancy, the governor shall issue his proclamation for special election to fill the vacancy for the unexpired term. The special first primary election shall be held four weeks prior to the dates for special primary elections as provided in R.S. 18:402(E)(1), the special second primary election shall be held on the dates as provided for special primary elections in R.S. 18:402(E)(1), and the special general election shall be held on the dates as provided in R.S. 18:402(E)(3). The dates of the qualifying period shall be established by the governor in accordance with this Part. Immediately after issuance of the proclamation, which shall include the dates of the first and second party primary and general elections and the dates of the qualifying period, the governor shall publish the proclamation in the official journal of each parish in which the election is to be held. Within twenty-four hours after its issuance, the governor shall send a copy of the proclamation to the secretary of state. Within twenty-four hours after he receives the copy, the secretary of state shall notify all election officials having any duty to perform in connection with a special election to fill such vacancy, including the parish boards of election supervisors for the parish or parishes in which the vacancy occurred. The election shall be conducted and the returns shall be certified as in regular elections for United States senator.
C. If a vacancy occurs in the office of United States senator and the unexpired term is one year or less, no special election shall be called by the governor and, if a senator is appointed to fill the vacancy, he shall serve for the remainder of the unexpired term, and his successor shall be elected at the next regular election for United States senator.
I caught Vitter and his wife on the news tonight. WTF? He's the "family values" politician yet he doesn't have to answer to anyone but God and his wife? What about his freakin' constituents who elected him because he was the "family values" candidate?
These two just make me sick. Even Paris Hilton is smart enough to realize that if the public catches on, you're going to be hounded by the press. Are they so dumb that they think everyone is just going to leave them alone? As a "family values" politician, Vitter's "family values" are very much an issue in everything he does! His constituents deserve answers!
To those of you who say that Dems get a pass on this -- most Dems don't campaign as being anti-gay, pro-morality, etc. Barney Frank in Massachusetts ran as an openly gay candidate so is anyone going to be surprised when he shows up with his boyfriend? If a woman suddenly shows up and says that she dated him, are people going to be upset that he said he was gay but might actually be bisexual?
I cannot think of a time, recently, when a democrat has gotten a pass and is usually congratulated.
THAT'S SINCE IT IS 99% OF THE TIME, REPUBLICANS GETTING CAUGHT IN THIS STUFF!!!
That 1% is due to the fact that dems get a pass 99% of the time. Or is it that reps. use professionals and dems. use interns?
Let him stay, I don't want to see any Dems. stooping to the Republican level and trying to out this guy over something like this.
I bet some of the less radical folks that wanted to see Clinton impeached (I think there were a few dems.) would take back their action if they could after seeing the impeachable stuff that Bush has done in the last 6 years.
Apparently, he's not going to resign according to news last night. I didn't think the repubs would take a chance on losing another senate seat. As long as he remains in the public eye he can be used as another example of the hypocrisy of the "family values" party.
I wonder how much hush money was needed to buy off the ladies of the night he got acquainted with in New Orleans?
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