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I was under a doctor's care through all three pregnancies. But, my youngest is 37 years old, so it's been a few years. My youngest was 19 or 20 when I had an abortion, so that was 17 or 18 years ago as well. So, why don't you simply answer my question about when 'routine' ultrasounds began instead of being snarky about it?
If I may barge in here, I don't really know when they began to be used routinely, but I had my firstborn in 1986 and they were doing a single u/s in the first trimester on normal pregnancies then to check for certain biological markers.
Any woman who goes an entire pregnancy with no ultrasound IS being irresponsible. Please see my previous post to vkhmini. Obviously you can pretty much know you're pregnant when you see a positive pee test. But as has been stated multiple times now, you do not know if the pregnancy is even viable until it is seen on u/s.
That's ridiculous. You don't think a woman at 6, 7 or 8 months pregnant can feel their baby moving? Hell, I felt all three of mine at 4 months! If I hadn't felt that movement, I probably would have asked for an ultrasound because I would have suspected something wrong. But with no suspicion of any kind of problem, there's no reason to have one.
How did you know it was viable? Because you felt movement later in the second trimester? I believe what Andrea is saying, and she is correct, is that a first trimester pregnancy cannot be confirmed as viable unless an ultrasound is done. Beta hcg levels can rise due to an active placenta even in cases where the gestational sac is empty and there is no embryo growing. Beta hcg levels can rise in an ectopic pregnancy, which is, as you know, not viable. So the only way to confirm viability in the first trimester is via ultrasound.
Believe me, I know far more about this subject than I want to know.
Except she said nothing to indicate she was talking about the first trimester.
YOU are the one with the problem so YOU need to look it up. It's not up to me to go through and validate every point with an external source. If you want to say I'm wrong, then prove it.
In most debate, the burden of proof lies on whoever makes a positive assertion. You make the claim, you back it up. Can't do it?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chattypatty
Agree with this -- well said.
Some women DO have regrets about their abortion for whatever reason, but they "own" their own decision and don't try to blame the existence of abortion for it.
Some women who abort really wanted their babies, but they had men in their lives who were either unsupportive, or in fact, abusively coercive and the women felt they had no choice. That's a tragedy, and in those cases, my heart goes out to the woman. It's easy for others to say "she should have exercised her rights" but much harder when you're in the situation with such a partner, and vulnerable because you are sick to your stomach or hormonal. However, again, the answer is not to remove the right from ALL women just because some women are victimized by men or family members who want them to abort a desired baby.
I would like it if abortion clinic personnel would always take special care to ascertain whether this is what a woman really wants. But, like any job, some workers are good at what they do and some are not. That's just life. Ultimately, women have to be responsible for themselves.
Okay, I'm probably going to get ripped about this. Go ahead, do your worst.
Many years ago, I worked for a GP who also performed pregnancy terminations. I DID, in every case, take meticulous care to ascertain that it was truly what the woman wanted. I also held their hands, made them mint tea when they were vomiting from the anaesthetic, and held them and cried with them when they needed to cry. I also defended them from their abusive partners who, right up to the moment, physically tried to stop the procedure, which on a couple of occasions required calling the police and having them removed from the premises.
I was present when one patient had abortions #6 and #7, and I only worked there for six months. And I was mortified at the realization that she apparently was using abortion as her primary form of birth control. With this particular patient, as with every patient, I counseled regarding effective birth control.
I didn't particularly enjoy this aspect of my job, contrary to what you out there are thinking about me right now -- yeah, I can almost hear the name calling -- but I was dedicated to doing my job with compassion and sensitivity. Not everyone who participates in the process of helping a woman terminate a pregnancy is a vicious, blood-thirsty demon. I didn't enjoy it, but I realized that someone was going to be there to do it, and I figured that those women had been through enough pain already, having gotten to the point where they'd made the decision, and deserved to be treated with dignity and compassion. AND IT WAS LEGAL, and nobody's business but the patient and whatever, if any, God she recognized as her creator, and the doctor. And I received many cards later from those women, thanking me for treating them with the utmost respect and dignity when others were treating them like scum.
So go ahead, have at it, but be warned, anyone who posts anything the least bit insulting, derisive or threatening to me, from this point on, will be reported to the moderators of this forum and dealt with accordingly.
The important point is that I have lots of very pertinent medical experience and so I know what I'm talking about technically and medically, and in the final analysis, the most important point is the one I highlighted above.
No sane, intelligent woman of any age who is pregnant needs to be "educated" regarding the fact that there is a potential life inside of her, and that if she chooses to terminate her pregnancy, she will be the one dealing with the consequences. Agreed, society is creating a generation of young women who take abortion far too lightly. I hate this. Ideally, someone who is honestly concerned about this might be putting their energies to more effective use by working out in the community, in situations where their input would be far more appropriately utilized and appreciated, instead of spewing vitriol and hatred, and proselytizing for any religion in an anonymous online forum where, realistically, nothing anyone says is going to change anyone's mind.
And I voted in the poll, just to see what the numbers say. They speak for themselves.
Hey if it's not a proper baby then why would a woman have a problem looking at a bunch of cells? Makes no sense, does it? They don't have a problem looking at at a tumour in the brain.
Who's afraid of the big bad conscience?
I've got no time to argue with people about this anymore. A life is a life, you are killing your children. End of story.
I believe it's about time someone exercised a bit of common sense. The population of the world was less than a billion in the year 1800 and it's projected that by 2025 it will reach 10 billion. All our resources and our food supplies will be crippled by continued growth. The planet is already showing fatal signs from growth to this point...it will become catastrophic if population growth isn't seriously addressed. Self centered individuals think copies or clones of themselves are necessary in the world. Nothing could be further from the truth.
An abortion is performed because someone is about to have an unwanted child...there are enough of those already.
Last edited by Melvin.George; 01-09-2011 at 10:33 AM..
Okay, I'm probably going to get ripped about this. Go ahead, do your worst.
Many years ago, I worked for a GP who also performed pregnancy terminations. I DID, in every case, take meticulous care to ascertain that it was truly what the woman wanted. I also held their hands, made them mint tea when they were vomiting from the anaesthetic, and held them and cried with them when they needed to cry. I also defended them from their abusive partners who, right up to the moment, physically tried to stop the procedure, which on a couple of occasions required calling the police and having them removed from the premises.
I was present when one patient had abortions #6 and #7, and I only worked there for six months. And I was mortified at the realization that she apparently was using abortion as her primary form of birth control. With this particular patient, as with every patient, I counseled regarding effective birth control.
I didn't particularly enjoy this aspect of my job, contrary to what you out there are thinking about me right now -- yeah, I can almost hear the name calling -- but I was dedicated to doing my job with compassion and sensitivity. Not everyone who participates in the process of helping a woman terminate a pregnancy is a vicious, blood-thirsty demon. I didn't enjoy it, but I realized that someone was going to be there to do it, and I figured that those women had been through enough pain already, having gotten to the point where they'd made the decision, and deserved to be treated with dignity and compassion. AND IT WAS LEGAL, and nobody's business but the patient and whatever, if any, God she recognized as her creator, and the doctor. And I received many cards later from those women, thanking me for treating them with the utmost respect and dignity when others were treating them like scum.
So go ahead, have at it, but be warned, anyone who posts anything the least bit insulting, derisive or threatening to me, from this point on, will be reported to the moderators of this forum and dealt with accordingly.
The important point is that I have lots of very pertinent medical experience and so I know what I'm talking about technically and medically, and in the final analysis, the most important point is the one I highlighted above.
No sane, intelligent woman of any age who is pregnant needs to be "educated" regarding the fact that there is a potential life inside of her, and that if she chooses to terminate her pregnancy, she will be the one dealing with the consequences. Agreed, society is creating a generation of young women who take abortion far too lightly. I hate this. Ideally, someone who is honestly concerned about this might be putting their energies to more effective use by working out in the community, in situations where their input would be far more appropriately utilized and appreciated, instead of spewing vitriol and hatred, and proselytizing for any religion in an anonymous online forum where, realistically, nothing anyone says is going to change anyone's mind.
And I voted in the poll, just to see what the numbers say. They speak for themselves.
I'm pro choice. So you see, you got hysterical for nothing!
Oh, but, didn't you know? Anyone who's not against it must for it! Making them "pro abortion". The anti-choice people really cannot seem to get it into their heads that what we are arguing for is the right of a woman to make up her own mind about whether or not she wants to continue a pregnancy. They see it as us 'promoting' abortion, rather than allowing a woman to choose abortion.
LOL! No hysteria, and the post was not disagreeing with you, nor was it directed at you.
Oh, okay. Since you quoted me, I wondered!
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