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Continous poverty is more often than not the result of hostile attitudes to responsiblity and education. I have seen this in play equally weither it's the backwoods whites in Applachia or the inner city blacks/latinos. Race seems to be an afterthought.
The only reason blacks always seem to be in the crosshairs is on one side you have racists who try to justify their ignorance by using inner city dysfunction as an example of our supposed "Inferiority", and on the other the excuse makers who use our history to explain why they fail to hold it down in life (along with the white guilt liberals who use them as pawns).
Continous poverty is more often than not the result of hostile attitudes to responsiblity and education. I have seen this in play equally weither it's the backwoods whites in Applachia or the inner city blacks/latinos. Race seems to be an afterthought.
The only reason blacks always seem to be in the crosshairs is on one side you have racists who try to justify their ignorance by using inner city dysfunction as an example of our supposed "Inferiority", and on the other the excuse makers who use our history to explain why they fail to hold it down in life (along with the white guilt liberals who use them as pawns).
That's right. Irresponsibility and poverty are human issues, not race issues, and so long as we fail to recognize and admit that fact, not much else will be accomplished but to feed the divide.
I don't know about everyone else, but I don't care how all that affects black poverty. I care how it affects poverty....period.
That's right. Irresponsibility and poverty are human issues, not race issues, and so long as we fail to recognize and admit that fact, not much else will be accomplished but to feed the divide.
I don't know about everyone else, but I don't care how all that affects black poverty. I care how it affects poverty....period.
Actually race often becomes a cause of irresponsibility and poverty because we are racist. Said another way, humans tend to self-segregate along racial, religious, and ethnic lines. Each one of these aggregations tends to have their strengths and weaknesses. A black person living in Detroit may not inherently be irresponsible but becomes so because his aggregation (both being Black and in Detroit) has certain cultural characteristics that promote such behavior. Similararily an Asian is not inherently good at math but becomes so because his aggregation promotes/demands academic excellence in order to garner respect in the community.
Actually race often becomes a cause of irresponsibility and poverty because we are racist. Said another way, humans tend to self-segregate along racial, religious, and ethnic lines. Each one of these aggregations tends to have their strengths and weaknesses. A black person living in Detroit may not inherently be irresponsible but becomes so because his aggregation (both being Black and in Detroit) has certain cultural characteristics that promote such behavior. Similararily an Asian is not inherently good at math but becomes so because his aggregation promotes/demands academic excellence in order to garner respect in the community.
That's true. We do all tend to self-segregate and there's not much to be done by that. Forced intergration hasn't been just real successful at changing attitudes, has it?
But, using the prevailing social norms of any group as an excuse for failure is just that...an excuse. It denies personal responsibility and gives the shiftless an easy out. And, those who feed that lie, on both sides, are part of the problem, not the solution.
The corroboration is what I and many others have personally seen day in and day out interacting with African Americans. The fact that there maybe not be an official study or survey (presuming the author's assertion is correct) does not change that. Even many African Americans have told me these behaviors and attitudes are pervasive in their community.
Don't know. Yea, it's pervasive in the AA community, but as i see it, it aint much different among most other groups either at this point. Here where i live, the apathy among white and hispanic youth is stunning.
In any case, i look at people as individuals anyway.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cronous
Actually race often becomes a cause of irresponsibility and poverty because we are racist. Said another way, humans tend to self-segregate along racial, religious, and ethnic lines. Each one of these aggregations tends to have their strengths and weaknesses. A black person living in Detroit may not inherently be irresponsible but becomes so because his aggregation (both being Black and in Detroit) has certain cultural characteristics that promote such behavior. Similararily an Asian is not inherently good at math but becomes so because his aggregation promotes/demands academic excellence in order to garner respect in the community.
Yup, and another term for this is "Class" and "Culture", two things that we tend to avoid admitting, much less talk about in this country. The Right would rather continue to get political "mileage" out of focusing strictly on "race", while the Left basically considers the realities of class and culture to be "un-PC", or worse, "undemocratic" ideas. So "Race" usually ends up being the defacto issue whenever this sort of topic comes up, instead of examining the underlying (and self-perpetuating) values that are responsible.
That's true. We do all tend to self-segregate and there's not much to be done by that. Forced intergration hasn't been just real successful at changing attitudes, has it?
But, using the prevailing social norms of any group as an excuse for failure is just that...an excuse. It denies personal responsibility and gives the shiftless an easy out. And, those who feed that lie, on both sides, are part of the problem, not the solution.
It is simply the reality on the ground, humans learn behaviors with whom they interact. That being said, it is not an excuse for failure. Self-responsibility has to be the norm otherwise people will have no motivation to improve themselves (e.g. I put on the pounds easily so there is no reason for me to control my diet and keep myself healthy). Nevertheless, there is nothing wrong with attempts at outreach from one aggregation to another to promote positive attributes in the other. Obviously this should not be forced.
Don't know. Yea, it's pervasive in the AA community, but as i see it, it aint much different among most other groups either at this point. Here where i live, the apathy among white and hispanic youth is stunning.
In any case, i look at people as individuals anyway.
Of course there a subsets of every race that are irresponsible (e.g. white trash, hispanic gang bangers, etc.). I would disagree, however, that it is as pervasive in other communities. White kids seem less likely to follow the hip-hop thug lifestyle and have less cultural aversion to education then black kids do.
The first point is quite true as financial recklessness merged with conspicous consumption cuts across most if not all groups.
However, he is wrong on the second point and the evidence is pretty clear on that. I saw it with my own eyes for 6 straight years. Granted, fatalism is not part of the calculus- the situation need not be permanent. And other groups have exhibited such negative culture in the past and some others do today as well.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
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I do volunteer work in "poor" neighborhoods, and what both black and white "underclass" folks seem to share that's part of their strength, but also part of their weakness, is a "tribal" or "clannish" sense that's just naturally suspicious of all "outsiders", even when they're there to provide help and resources. Maybe it's just cultural differences, but I don't see that tendency as much among asian or hispanic populations, who always seem happy to receive any assistance they can get. And it's probably no coincidence that these are also among the groups most likely to "succeed" and "rise above" whatever their current situations, while others choose to stick with the "familiar".
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