Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Palin and Beck are very vocal about being Christians. THAT'S the connection.
I am not advocating curtailing "freedom of speech." I'm saying that individuals have a responsibility for what their words "inspire."
The mentally ill do not usually live in a complete vacuum. Loughner did not. He clearly used the Internet, if nothing else. He attended a community college. He talked to people from time to time. Do you think mentally disturbed people are not at all influenced by events which take place around them and in the world? Plus there are many levels of mental illness. I find it interesting that Loughner clearly appears to be mentally ill, and I also find it interesting that he, at some level, managed to be "together" enough to NOT TALK to authorities after his arrest. And he asked for a lawyer. That indicates some awareness of his situation for sure. He invoked his right to have an attorney.
btw, where did I say the democratic map was any less offensive than Palin's map, IMO? The only difference I see there is Palin's words..."don't retreat, reload." The airwaves are FULL of violent words and imagery. If you can't discern that, perhaps you've been far too desensitized.
Yes, me too. His mother was on the board and he kept getting off. The sherrif needs to explain why.
If Zamadora would have been there when the shooting started he would have stopped it.
Hilarious and outrageous speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts?
And he didn't shoot anyone did he? He told the guy to drop it and he did. DUH
The guy dropped it because he was in fear of his own life, given that he WASN'T the shooter, which the witness clearly stated he believed at the time. The actual shooter may very well not have been at all compliant and we'd have had a massive clusterflock on our hands.
Even the witness admits he was LUCKY he didn't actually shoot the guy.
Not smart (even though he might be smart).
Not well-trained (even though he might be well-trained).
I know plenty about guns. I've shot them many times, myself.
The witness was entirely certain he had the shooter when he shoved him up against the wall. But even that absolute certainty didn't cause him to ever even pull his gun out of his pocket. For all the good the gun actually did, he may as well not have had it on him at all.
So now you're arguing that because he didn't shoot him, he shouldn't have had the gun??????
And if the sherrif, in this case, had done his job, instead of pandering to Loughners mother that was on the board, this kid may have gotten help.
More plitical pandering that may have caused this tragedy.
Then the sherrif tries to blame others and not the shooter!
A whole lot of the problem in this case comes from the fact that Arizona and 49 other states don't have laws that allow people like Loughner to be dealt with before they commit their crimes. Law enforcement people, the people at the CC, and any number of others knew that the kid had a problem but there is no way provided for to do anything about them. There needs to be a law that provide for psychiatric help for people like him and that it be done in a lock up type setting not just something that can be done if the person turns himself in.
I say lockup while knowing that weirdos can escape from them also.
Honestly, we don't know what motivated this psychotic at all till he says something...I don't blame any side of it.
I don't honestly feel bad for many pundits and extreme candidates that pushed any violence. It's not a leap of logic that people advocating that patriots take a look at some "Second Amendment solutions" on national outlets would catch flak when one of those people targeted is hit in the head with a second amendment solution. No one should be surprised when people looked in horror and thought that some nut had finally taken the extreme action many people were warning about with such hateful speech.
It's sick to watch people playing the victim who touted this vile horrible rhetoric. I don't give a crap myself of who did what before, people need to walk the walk before they can cry foul about getting their feelings hurt.
Thanks for the correction. And thanks for emphasizing my point that even the witness said he was lucky he didn't actually shoot the guy by mistake!
And of course an innocent person would quickly drop a gun under such circumstances. If it really had been the shooter, there's no telling what that lunatic might have done and the witness could be dead, himself now! I love people who think they know everything.
"The Arizona Daily Star, based on its interview with Zamudio, adds two details to the story. First, upon seeing the man with the gun, Zamudio "grabbed his arm and shoved him into a wall" before realizing he wasn't the shooter. And second, one reason why Zamudio didn't pull out his own weapon was that "he didn't want to be confused as a second gunman."
This is a much more dangerous picture than has generally been reported. Zamudio had released his safety and was poised to fire when he saw what he thought was the killer still holding his weapon. Zamudio had a split second to decide whether to shoot. He was sufficiently convinced of the killer's identity to shove the man into a wall. But Zamudio didn't use his gun. That's how close he came to killing an innocent man. He was, as he acknowledges, "very lucky.""
Man, I can just see it now; the hero races into the scene and starts firing at the guy with the gun, taking him down. Other witnesses think he's part of the assassination attempt and start shooting at him. MORE chaos ensues. What a massive clusterflock was avoided because someone who happened to have a gun ON him, chose NOT to actually pull out or USE that gun!!!
Do you have any numbers that indicate about how many people in that crowd were carrying concealed weapons. Knowing the percentage of Arizona people who have permits to carry concealed weapons would tell us a bit about how many would have been shooting at everything in sight.
As much as I find Beck, Limbaugh, and other hate-radio jocks distasteful, it's true that they are not responsible for this lunatic, Loughner. These psychos do their deeds pretty much in isolation.
I disagree. As I pointed out, Loughner was "aware" enough to refuse to talk to authorities after his arrest and he invoked his right to an attorney. That indicates that this person was not completely and totally delusional.
The idea that this man was not influenced by anything other than himself, IMO, is just an extension of "rugged individualism" which is almost a religious belief among many, if not most, Americans. Seems to me that is possibly what the guy was doing, "acting" as the rugged individualist and giving his life for what HE THOUGHT was helping save the country......combined with what appears to be his experience of humiliation when the Congresswoman did not respond to his strange question when he met her in 2007. If someone else has responded in the same way the Congresswoman responded to him, do you suppose he would have killed that person? I think not.
Just like all Republicans, they can't own any of their colossal disasters. They always pass the buck.
Are you talking about the Sherrif (D) that kept letting this clearly disturbed kid off because his mother was on the board? Must be nice to have friends in high places. Well, unless you're part of the tradgedy that ensues in the aftermath.
And in spite of the gun laws...that didn't happen. It was one lone nut. Why do libs always go to such extremes?
Finally someone mentions the really important fact in this part of this discussion. Obviously the left leaners who are against ownership of firearms are using this case as an argument to prove what they want us all to think. We will never escape from this kind of thinking until THEY manage to abolish the 2nd Amendment and take away the guns.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
