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In answer to your question about R and D, yes a lot of corporations are building up higher level R and D infrastructure in low cost sourcing areas - including Dow Chemical, IBM, Hewlett Packard. So I still think there is cause for concern.
A new study that will be presented today to the National Academies, the nation's leading advisory groups on science and technology, suggests that more and more research work at corporations will be sent to fast-growing economies with strong education systems, like China and India.
In a survey of more than 200 multinational corporations on their research center decisions, 38 percent said they planned to "change substantially" the worldwide distribution of their research and development work over the next three years — with the booming markets of China and India, and their world-class scientists, attracting the greatest increase in projects.
Whether placing research centers in their home countries or overseas, the study said, companies often use similar criteria. The quality of scientists and engineers and their proximity to research centers are crucial.
The study contended that lower labor costs in emerging markets are not the major reason for hiring researchers overseas, though they are a consideration. Tax incentives do not matter much, it said.
Instead, the report found that multinational corporations were global shoppers for talent. The companies want to nurture close links with leading universities in emerging markets to work with professors and to hire promising graduates.
Dow Chemical is one company that plans to invest heavily in new research and development centers in China and India. It is building a research center in Shanghai, which will employ 600 technical workers when it is completed next year. Dow is also finishing plans for a large installation in India, said William F. Banholzer, Dow's chief technology officer.
Today, the company employs 5,700 scientists worldwide, about 4,000 of them in the United States and Canada, and most of the rest in Europe. But the moves overseas will alter that. "There will be a major shift for us," Mr. Banholzer said.
The swift economic growth in China and India, he said, is part of the appeal because products and processes often have to be tailored for local conditions. The rising skill of the scientists abroad is another reason. "There are so many smart people over there," Mr. Banholzer said. "There is no monopoly on brains, and none on education either."
I think that most americans would not have a problem with companies outsourcing because there is legitimate talent that cannot be found in the US. And most americans would not have a problem with the best and brightest from other countries coming to live here permanently and becoming citizens.
But the most common reason the U.S. companies offshore is in order to dodge the costs involved in doing business in the U.S. (insurance, benefits, pollution controls, etc.) rather than the noble "searching for global talent". Face it, the corps go where the cheapest labor is.
Now they are setting up call centers in the middle of the sahara - wherever the cheapest labor is, they will go there.
Based on the information from the links there appears to be no limit to the level of jobs that are impacted and will continue to be impacted by the pursuit of cheaper offshore labor.
Here’s an interesting quote; "In the call center business, low-end centers in the United States typically recruit people without high school educations. Turnover is 100 percent to 150 percent per year. In India, they won't interview you unless you speak fluent English and have a college degree, so there are tremendous cost savings and quality improvements."
Anyone think the call center support is better today than before they were sent offshore? I know I don’t.
When they moved assembly plant overseas I didn’t care because I didn’t work at the assembly plant.
When cheaper labor was brought in to work in construction, I didn’t care because I didn’t work in construction.
When they moved call centers overseas, I didn’t care because I didn’t work in a call center.
When they moved all IT administration overseas, I didn’t care because I didn’t do IT administration.
When they moved accounting overseas, I didn’t care because I didn’t work in accounting.
When they moved the CEO operations overseas, I didn’t care because I wasn’t a CEO.
Now that I want to sell my house I can’t seem to find anyone left who is making enough money to buy it.
I think that most americans would not have a problem with companies outsourcing because there is legitimate talent that cannot be found in the US. And most americans would not have a problem with the best and brightest from other countries coming to live here permanently and becoming citizens.
But the most common reason the U.S. companies offshore is in order to dodge the costs involved in doing business in the U.S. (insurance, benefits, pollution controls, etc.) rather than the noble "searching for global talent". Face it, the corps go where the cheapest labor is.
Now they are setting up call centers in the middle of the sahara - wherever the cheapest labor is, they will go there.
Yup and boy those 'savings" are never passed on to the American consumer that's for sure
Anyone think the call center support is better today than before they were sent offshore? I know I don’t.
I think Indians do a far better job than Americans did at call support, at least for Dell.
The Indians I've dealt with have been friendly and professional, and they are concerned with helping me solve my problem. The Americans I've dealt with have been far too eager to get me off the line, for any reason. Back before call center outsourcing, you'd call Dell, and they'd say to call Microsoft. You'd call Microsoft, and they'd say to call the mobo manufacturer. You'd call the mobo manufacturer, and they'd say to call Dell.
Based on the information from the links there appears to be no limit to the level of jobs that are impacted and will continue to be impacted by the pursuit of cheaper offshore labor.
When they moved assembly plant overseas I didn’t care because I didn’t work at the assembly plant.
When cheaper labor was brought in to work in construction, I didn’t care because I didn’t work in construction.
When they moved call centers overseas, I didn’t care because I didn’t work in a call center.
When they moved all IT administration overseas, I didn’t care because I didn’t do IT administration.
When they moved accounting overseas, I didn’t care because I didn’t work in accounting.
When they moved the CEO operations overseas, I didn’t care because I wasn’t a CEO.
Now that I want to sell my house I can’t seem to find anyone left who is making enough money to buy it.
Well, that may be true, but the replacement home you want to purchase, or the apartment you would like to rent, should reflect the same economic reality. So overall, you should still be OK (unless you want to move to India).
I think Indians do a far better job than Americans did at call support, at least for Dell.
The Indians I've dealt with have been friendly and professional, and they are concerned with helping me solve my problem. The Americans I've dealt with have been far too eager to get me off the line, for any reason. Back before call center outsourcing, you'd call Dell, and they'd say to call Microsoft. You'd call Microsoft, and they'd say to call the mobo manufacturer. You'd call the mobo manufacturer, and they'd say to call Dell.
I have experienced the exactly the opposite when I've needed technical help with anything over the past 15 or so years. Additionally, I was never shuffled around before call center outsourcing - but now I am as there are multiple levels of technical knowledge and specialists for everything - and if the call handler has to go "off script" they get completely lost. My most recent experience with IBM Help actually resulted in my call finally getting routed to an American who solved my problem in 10 minutes after two obviously outsourced handlers couldn't problem-solve beyond their scripts after wasting about 40 minutes of my time.
Regarding eagerness to get me off the line - I was pushed off 3 technical support calls this year without real resolution but received emails regarding my incident being closed immediately - because the outsourced handlers wanted to say they resolved my problem in a particular time period. It happens today. Outsourced resources still abide by such performance measurements.
Granted this may be a small snapshot in time and only a single view, but my experience does not exemplify progress nor does it align with yours Anonymous.
I defer to the great knowledge many of you have displayed. My understanding of economics is not nearly as complete as many of yours is. However, I do believe the US, at least for now, carries a tremendous amount of clout, and offers probably the world's largest single-nation consumer market, at the present time.
Our society has adapted in past decades, to new concepts and new ways of regarding ourselves, and our rights and freedoms, that would have been totally unimaginable in our great grandparents' time. Virtually the entire concept of social programs, gov't grants, and the entire spectrum of government "interference" in business and commerce was created, at one point or another, from "scratch".
It may be possible now that we need to evolve in our ideas of the "rights" of business, and to balance these against the "civic duty" of business owners to simply acknowledge that they have an obligation to their (our) society over and above the right to make a profit. In simple language, we could say "If you want to do business with the biggest market on earth, and if you want to have your 'base' here, want to enjoy the advantages here, or to have any other 'claim' on US soil, you simply MUST abide by some new rules".
It isn't a totally fantastic idea- after all, the whole concept of "taxes", period, was as popular as ("you know what") in the punchbowl when it was first broached, and passionately derided as "the devil's own invention" etc., etc., Now the idea of business "paying its way" is largely taken for a non-issue. Not too long ago OSHA was looked at as some sort of "communist plot". Now most people agree that it serves a need, and have resigned themselves to "paying their share", albeit grudgingly. Other examples could fill several pages, of ideas once thought "intolerable", now accepted as neccessary for a modern, decent society, and the protection of its workers.
I don't have too many specifics, but it seems to me we're (so far) in the driver's seat, and it wouldn't be unreasonable to INSIST that if you want to "Play with the Big Boys", (and SELL to them as well), then you're going to have to abide by his (our) rules. We could make this as palatable as we want, I suppose. Sure sounds like a reasonable request to me..
Where am I mistaken?...
While we're at it, let's poll the lower class and ask them what companies they hate. Then, we can force them to close by passing laws to forbid their trade. Also, we'll need to put price controls on the companies that are left so that they won't be able to charge higher prices, though they are forced to hire American labor workers who will be producing at minimum wage while receiving $20/hr. pay, along with company-paid health care and retirement. Then, we'll need to provide federal subsidies to these companies so that they won't claim bankruptcy, close down, and layoff workers. Sounds like a plan to me.
You're making a strawman from a false dichotomy. Alexander Hamilton's trade tariffs are what forced the U.S. to bolster its manufacture base and become the superpower that it once was.
Everybody who supports trade tariffs isn't a communist.
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