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Exactly. What Bush and the GOP did after 9/11 was similar to what Hitler and the Nazis did after the the Reichstag Fire. They used terrorist attacks to justify their power grabs...
LOL! I hate to burst your bubble, but the USAPATRIOT Act was a bipartisan bill. The GOP controlled House passed their version, and the Democrat controlled Senate passed their version. The two bills were then reconciled in conference. It was Senator Daschle who introduced the Senate version of the USAPATRIOT Act.
LOL! I hate to burst your bubble, but the USAPATRIOT Act was a bipartisan bill. The GOP controlled House passed their version, and the Democrat controlled Senate passed their version. The two bills were then reconciled in conference. It was Senator Daschle who introduced the Senate version of the USAPATRIOT Act.
Thats totally fair, and I realize alot of the Democrats also voted for the Iraq War. But it was Bush/Cheney/Rusfield who pushed the agenda.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ntr0py
If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.
Something tells me the right wouldn't say that if it was Obama who was originally pushing the Patriot Act. Or if it was him who introduced something like No Child Left Behind. Or it was him who ignored a memo warning of what Bin Laden was planning a month before 9/11. Or if it was him who failed on a massive level when Iraq didn't have the WMDs (real WMDs, nuclear weapons like the Bush admin implied, not leftover stuff from the Iran-Iraq war) they were said to have, or any connection with Al Qaeda. Or if it was under his watch when we literally had a budget surplus, literal wealth, destroyed.
I love how these guys push the whole "THOSE WHO WOULD SACRIFICE LIBERTY FOR SECURITY DESERVE NEITHER! YA KNOW BEN FRANKLIN SAID THAT!", then turn around and play the ridiculous "NOTHING TO FEAR IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE" card...
The Patriot Act, one of most prominent expansions of federal authority in the past decade, received overwhelming Republican backing in 2006 when it was first up for renewal. This year, even as the surge of the tea party brought to Washington a new legion of lawmakers suspicious of government power, the law again has a good chance of being reauthorized.
The first test comes this month, when three provisions of the act giving the government greater ability to monitor suspected terrorists expire and Congress must decide whether to extend them.
Since the law first passed with broad bipartisan support in October 2001, just after the 9/11 attacks, the debate has pitted civil libertarians against those who believe the government needs stronger tools to fight terrorism. Most of the law was made permanent in 2006.
The democrats aren't doing any better with the Patriot Act. It should've been repealed the day after Obama was sworn in. Now Leahy wants to renew provisions in it.
With regards to the OP and the TEA party, the only freedom that matters to them is the freedom to be as greedy and self interested as possible.
Thats totally fair, and I realize alot of the Democrats also voted for the Iraq War. But it was Bush/Cheney/Rusfield who pushed the agenda.
So, according to this, the dems that voted for it are just mindless sheep who get coerced easily. At least you got that right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithium
Something tells me the right wouldn't say that if it was Obama who was originally pushing the Patriot Act. Or if it was him who introduced something like No Child Left Behind. Or it was him who ignored a memo warning of what Bin Laden was planning a month before 9/11. Or if it was him who failed on a massive level when Iraq didn't have the WMDs (real WMDs, nuclear weapons like the Bush admin implied, not leftover stuff from the Iran-Iraq war) they were said to have, or any connection with Al Qaeda. Or if it was under his watch when we literally had a budget surplus, literal wealth, destroyed.
This post tells me you are biased. You make bad things up in this post about the Repubs because the Democrats policies are so bad you have to deflect. Few in Congress voted against The Patriot Act and our illegal invasion of a sovereign nation. The ones who voted against them on both issues are the ones we need to look towards for consistent leadership.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithium
I love how these guys push the whole "THOSE WHO WOULD SACRIFICE LIBERTY FOR SECURITY DESERVE NEITHER! YA KNOW BEN FRANKLIN SAID THAT!", then turn around and play the ridiculous "NOTHING TO FEAR IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE" card...
"These guys"???? Anything is possible. But I do not know of ANYONE, much less these guys, who has flip flopped like that on this issue. I want to see proof of someone who actually believes in the Founders and the Constitution who has said that and changed. Especially if they are in the Tea Party. I want to see how they vote to make sure. Then expose that person.
LOL! I hate to burst your bubble, but the USAPATRIOT Act was a bipartisan bill. The GOP controlled House passed their version, and the Democrat controlled Senate passed their version. The two bills were then reconciled in conference. It was Senator Daschle who introduced the Senate version of the USAPATRIOT Act.
None the less, those with an agenda which includes government control over personal lives and taking away freedoms pushed the patriot act with all the fear cards showing at BOTH parties. They both bought it. Yes, they went through the motions but in the end it is still the draconian law it was intended to be. It legalized things which were not legal and created a basis to expand.
In this case it was 9-11 that created the excuse. One of the interesting things about the Reichstag fire is that in multiple decades of study nobody still knows how it was started and by whom. It's entirely possible the Nazi party just used the opportunity another extreme created to attack the Weimar republic. The Nazi's were just the best coordinated at taking on an opportunity. In the end it didn't matter who did it for they are also prime suspects. What matters is they knew how to use it to play their fear card and take power.
There have LONG been those here who like the idea of control, and laws have gotten in the way. Now some of those laws are no longer a problem. I doubt that the men with their boxcutters were thinking about it when they took over the planes, but they have accomidated the same kinds of mentality which created the world that created them. In a sense they won since we have had our rights compromised and sliced away since, and are slowly completing the slow frog boil, but in a sense everyone lost too.
What was once old is new again.
It's cool to see the old communist slogans rolled out.
Lets hope our youth pick up on them
I remember back when the first planes were hijacked and you had to open your luggage this was said. Most people didn't get the idea that little tiny seeds grow into giant trees once they set their roots.
The thing left undefined is just what you have to fear.
Rand Paul ran as a Republican, not a Libertarian. Had he run as a Libertarian he would most assuredly have lost. Like I said, Libertarians are closet anarchists, they have to try to hide what they are by pretending to be something they are not - in Rand Paul's case, he is pretending to be a Republican.
The reason both Ron Paul and Rand Paul are Republicans is because that is the only way they can successfully hope to apply their libertarian philosophy. The system is rigged against all third parties. In case you forget, Ron Paul ran as the Libertarian candidate for president 10 years ago and nobody knew him. That sure isn't the case now. But back to the topic, here is what he just said about the Patriot Act:
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