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Well, Historiandude seems to think the Bible says the Earth is flat.
Are you also going to claim the Bible states the Earth is flat?
Yes. And the 6 day incident with 'god' taking a day off on the 7th day. Why did you type that stuff I quoted, in? The Bible (or Koran, or Talmud, etc...) is a collection of fairy stories.
Now, let's go back to the topic - evolution.
Tell me about the alternative. Please. I beg you on my knees.
Well... there you go. Good for you!!! Calvinist hasn't been able to make that brilliant conceptual connection even though the topic has been discussed perhaps a score times with him. You run rings around him intellectually.
And you are very, very, very close. But not quite there.
Theists have already conceded the possibility of an eternal uncreated thing, in their case "God." Therefore, no theist can argue against the concept of an eternal universe without contradicting themselves. If God can be eternal then why can't the universe? This brings the two arguments (as you yourself point out) to parity. But I cannot allow that to last for long, because the arguments are not actually equal. One has actual evidence in its favor, while one does not.
1. There are two proposals in front of you for the "thing" that preexisted the Big Bang. One of them (the universe) actually has evidence in its favor. We need but look around us to experience first hand that, yes, a universe actually does exist.
We have no comparable evidence for a "God."
QED: There is infinitely more evidence in favor of an eternal uncreated universe than there is for an eternal uncreated God.
2. The laws of conservation and causality tell us that every effect must have a cause. These laws are empirically derived. In all of human history, no one has ever witnessed a violation of them... at least not in any testable venue.
The universe consists of entities, 100% of which obey the laws of conservation and causality. There does not exist a single thing in the universe that does not have a cause, exists for a term, and then ceases to exist. Even in an eternal universe, everything it contains is ephemeral and perfectly follows those laws.
An eternal God violates those laws by definition, since it is an effect that has no cause. An eternal universe does not, since it is not really a thing at all. It is just the category in which we include all things.
QED: According to the laws of conservation and causality, an eternal and uncreated universe is possible. An eternal and uncreated God is not.
Accepting that the fact of There does not exist a single thing in the universe that does not have a cause, exists for a term, and then ceases to exist. Even in an eternal universe, everything it contains is ephemeral and perfectly follows those laws.
that can no more prove what caused the big bang then a creationist can prove it. The question then goes to what caused the big bang. Do you believe it was caused by elements which always existed accidental coming to gether and blowing up somehow causing planets suns and lava pools, or do you believe that there was a creator which caused it.
Somewhere from the lava pool life was magically created which if did happen surely we could recreate it. So is the father/mother of all life on earth an amoeba accidental formed in a lava pool,or was their a creator.
When we can scientifically prove by smashing elements together we can create an organism with life then i can buy this story a bit more than a creator
I use the term as the creator not as a discussion of what religion believes in what god. I believe that to be separate from this discussion
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