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What I think is I don't much care one way or another, because the concept of retirement isn't "going anywhere," and the very notion that it is, wastes everyones time.
Beyond that, I think it a sad state of affairs when 20 or 30 year olds think that an important part of life should revolve around sitting on the porch, hanging out with friends (whether that be in their yards or online - don't make a difference) and discussing the particulars of their pensions like they are feeble old men. I think it is indicative of a systemic problem in that society that speaks to a larger mentality than those people simply having a low-time preference.
If people want to worry about these matters, I can't begrudge them. We are all free to worry our little heads off about whatever it is we want. I care only about the means by which people propose to solve these problems. I am into the field of "preparedness" and keep large quantities of supplies (and other things) for my own reasons based on hedging future circumstances (including financial circumstance related), and if others are greatly concerned about things like retirement, then so be it. I care only that everyone, in seeking out their solutions, do not conscript others as part of their solution.
Last edited by FreedomThroughAnarchism; 03-14-2011 at 11:42 AM..
That'll be interesting to watch. From a great distance. I mean, unemployment at the moment isn't good. If people stop retiring altogether, most young people can pretty much kiss the notion of ever getting a non-menial job goodbye.
What do you conservatives think should be done about good careful people that have played by your rules and saved and invested all their working lives and lose all that money in a bank collapse or a stock market collapse?
What I expect to be done is to let all persons find their own non-violent means of facing adversity and trying to solve the myriad challenges that comes as part and parcel of life, and to find peaceful ways of coming back from the occasional failure or misfortune.
I do not lend support to the idea of violently forcing obligation on society writ large, or upon any subset of that society, such that others are charged with aiding the misfortunes of others. So long as the myriad solutions we can dream up to solve these problems comply with that extremely narrow constraint, which is but a mere one constraint which still allows infinite other possibilities, then I find myself satisfied.
** If one is concerned with a particular mode of failure, then perhaps hedge that by not putting all ones eggs in the same basket, lest many of them break should an unexpected fall occur.
What do you conservatives think should be done about good careful people that have played by your rules and saved and invested all their working lives and lose all that money in a bank collapse or a stock market collapse?
Stand in a circle, point and laugh.
Seriously, a person who loses "all their money" wasn't playing by our rules--unless the whole system collapses and nobody has anything. In that case, we're all in the same boat.
What is dying is the idea that it is even possible to have one out of three adults sitting in a rocking chair--and still run a society.
This is the arithmetic behind having only two workers per Social Security retiree, and it was ridiculous forty years ago when demographers could see it coming and it is ridiculous now.
We'll still have retirement--but it will increasingly begin at older ages.
What would happen to Social Security if the Congress came up with the very near $4 trillion that they owe the system from spending in previous years? I keep reading what people say about this and don't seem to find many that have any idea why the fund is broke. Of course, they can print up that much money since they just vote in trillions more in debt ceiling to keep spending, but then that is very silly to even think about.
The thing that gripes me most is that have spent what they called SS surplus all these years instead of allowing it to grow in a fund as was originally intended.
There certainly isn't an easy answer (or all-encompassing one) for the situations any individual may find themselves in. I'm just saying that it is foolish to think that the status quo on retirement will be sticking around. It is quite evident that it won't. There will be people that suffer (and I may yet be one of them). But, because we see those storm clouds forming, those that are able, need to prepare for it. I am trying to do that according to my situation. It would seem that the old ways of doing things is going to have to make a come-back. Families used to take care of themselves and run the business. When the kids were older, then they took over and the elderly did what they could (if anything). Not everyone (each individuals situation is different), but quite a few found this to be best. I have no answer for you, but no one does. I'm having to improvise, adapt - and then hopefully overcome. That may be harder for others to do and easier for some.
Much of what you say is true. I'm glad to hear someone whose willing to admit that a lot of us aren't going to be able to gain or retain a decent paying job until we choose to retire. More often, people are shown the door and replaced with some one younger, healthier, cheaper.
This is why I'm reluctant to rail against union jobs. I don't envy them for what they have and I don't advocate that everyone should walk on the same tightrope without a net. This doesn't sound like something to fight for. I think the end result will be to lower the bar for everyone. We've already gone too far in that direction. Corporations have made record profits, the top 5% are holding onto an increasingly disproportionate amount of wealth and wages haven't increased in over a decade.
The outrage against teachers, firefighters, etc. seems entirely misdirected to me. Even if all unions are busted up (and we know that's the corporate desire) what do we all win? Soon, only the military will be afforded good benefits/pension plan, they remain untouchable, while for the rest of us, they continue to erode and we work harder for less.
People are living much older these days............The whole notion of retirement as we know it is flawed anyhow. We all know people who are active and still doing a lot of things, working and volunteering into their 80's. The idea that for some reason when we hit 65 we should just stop working and being productive and receive a check from the government every month is absurd.
I've come around to this way of thinking, after so many years of just assuming the retirement model was sound. I just read an excellent book on retirement, and the author quoted studies that showed that an overwhelming majority of retirees engaged only in leisure activities were bored, depressed, and felt their life had lost all meaning. After all, there is only so much golf you can play. The happiest senior citizens were those who were still actively engaged in work, volunteering, or other pursuits not leisure related.
I agree with LauraC that we are going to have to be vigilant about ageism in the workplace. A few years ago, 60 Minutes did a segment on retirees returning to work and found that there are some companies who prefer to hire them because they actually have a work ethic, unlike the younger set. I think it would be an interesting development if that proved to be true and other companies followed suit!
I'm sure many people who looked forward to retirement feel cheated, especially if they are in dead end jobs that they hate. But, it's never too late to make a positive change in your life.
I agreee that retiremnet is goig to change. One change is that most companies witht eh added expesnse form mandates i the healthcare bill will dorp contributions tot ehir pol for anyoen who retires before medicare and then drop contribtuions to any supplement. Many compnaies will more and more give cash in income to in the end get rid of managing healthcare with its future liabiliies that hurts their borrowing ratings.
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