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Old 03-20-2011, 08:54 AM
 
1,097 posts, read 2,046,091 times
Reputation: 1619

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 58robbo View Post
YOUR tax dollars aren't going anywhere. MY tax dollars would be going out of the state system and into the private system. i really don't get it, obama signs a tax credit for college education, clinton signs one for suv's, and everyone's got a problem with a tax credit for people who borderline cannot afford private, but are desperate to get their kids out of public schools!
Private school is private school. I would like a private road from my house to my job. Those public roads are just too plebeian for me. But I can't afford it. So give me a tax credit and I'll build my own. And then you can come up with the money I took out of your public road to fix all those pesky potholes.
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:19 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,035,628 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
If a parent home schools their child, then that voucher could be cashed in by the family and used as extra income. This could mean a mother could quit her job, and stay home raising her children.

If a parent finds a cheaper/better private school or tutor, then they could use that money for that purpose, and keep the extra.

The current crop of homeschoolers have no financial incentive and are doing what they think is best for children. If you went and allowed them to keep the money you're going to get a whole new crop of people just trying to game the system, people will be pumping out kids just to get their hands on the money. We'll end up with more dumb kids.

As far as the homeschooling they would have to account for the money, it could only be spent on approved things. You set aside X amount that can be spent on supplies. The rest can be discretionary like field trips. These kids would need to be tested to make sure they were meeting some standards if they are to continue to receive funds for homeschooling.

To encourage savings across the board you allow the student to bank any funds they don't spend which can then go towards expenses in later years of HS or higher education. This will insure the schools are not setting a minimum tuition at what the voucher is worth and money isn't squandered just to spend it.
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:23 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,035,628 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtimer2 View Post
Right... B.S.

It is just another tax break for the wealthier taxpayer.
As already pointed out the evil Republicans in PA are specifically targeting the poorest students and most unproductive schools in the state with the vouchers. Once they bury these bad schools with this program they can move onto providing these funds for everyone.
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:24 AM
 
3,283 posts, read 5,206,489 times
Reputation: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by nj185 View Post
Private school is private school. I would like a private road from my house to my job. Those public roads are just too plebeian for me. But I can't afford it. So give me a tax credit and I'll build my own. And then you can come up with the money I took out of your public road to fix all those pesky potholes.
i would support you in your effort if the road going passed your house was littered with potholes which were never repaired! kinda like public education. what terrible roads do to your shocks, kinda like what some public schools do to your kids
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:26 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,035,628 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
I have no problem paying for public schools, but my tax dollars being used for private and/or religious schooling is wrong.
What is more important here, educating students or who gets the money? If the private school can do it better what is the issue?
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,381,847 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post


Um, sure, a mom (but not dad, apparently) could quit her job and get the $5K to homeschool. I'm sure that would work out financially.


.
Mom, Dad, makes no difference.

5,000 dollars tax credit, plus you can claim them as a full dependent, with all insurance costs at work as a tax write off. Plus the extra costs of school, registration fees, school lunches, etc. Plus if you have more than one child and you have child care expenses (usually no less than 200 a week for a decent one), you're looking at an additional 800 dollars a month savings, which adds up to 9,600 a year.

You're looking at over 20,000 a year easy, not to mention the house is clean, and all of the other maintenance work thats taken care of around the house.

Just saying.
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,722,105 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Mom, Dad, makes no difference.

5,000 dollars tax credit, plus you can claim them as a full dependent, with all insurance costs at work as a tax write off. Plus the extra costs of school, registration fees, school lunches, etc. Plus if you have more than one child and you have child care expenses (usually no less than 200 a week for a decent one), you're looking at an additional 800 dollars a month savings, which adds up to 9,600 a year.

You're looking at over 20,000 a year easy, not to mention the house is clean, and all of the other maintenance work thats taken care of around the house.

Just saying.
Sounds like a scam to me. And people accuse those on welfare of having more kids to get more money! See above posts.
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,381,847 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
The current crop of homeschoolers have no financial incentive and are doing what they think is best for children. If you went and allowed them to keep the money you're going to get a whole new crop of people just trying to game the system, people will be pumping out kids just to get their hands on the money. We'll end up with more dumb kids.

As far as the homeschooling they would have to account for the money, it could only be spent on approved things. You set aside X amount that can be spent on supplies. The rest can be discretionary like field trips. These kids would need to be tested to make sure they were meeting some standards if they are to continue to receive funds for homeschooling.

To encourage savings across the board you allow the student to bank any funds they don't spend which can then go towards expenses in later years of HS or higher education. This will insure the schools are not setting a minimum tuition at what the voucher is worth and money isn't squandered just to spend it.
Which is why I said the testing would the the hinge point of the whole argument.

If you are homeschooling your child, and they aren't meeting or exceeding national standards, then you are no longer allowed to homeschool your child. Then they will either have to go to a private teacher, school, or the public school in the area.

This would prevent the baby farm example that you're thinking of. And to make sure that parents aren't gaming the system by helping their child with a test at home, there should be a test or two taken every year at the public school where all of the kids in the area must attend and take a test to make sure that they aren't being abused by parents gaming the system.
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,381,847 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Sounds like a scam to me. And people accuse those on welfare of having more kids to get more money! See above posts.
See "testing is a must" post.
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Flippin AR
5,513 posts, read 5,239,642 times
Reputation: 6243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill61 View Post
As a society, every single one of us has not only an obligation, but an interest in seeing our nation's children educated.
Having an educated labor force is a great idea--as long as there is some balance between the size of the workforce and the size of the labor market. But when the population continues to explode (due to large immigrant populations producing large families), and the national job market continues to decrease in size, as well as replacing formerly well-paid jobs with poorly paid ones, this policy is simply creating a "race to the bottom" for wages and compensation.

The overpopulation of the educated labor force resulted in wages stagnating all the way back in the 1970s, benefits dropping precipitously; pensions virtually disappeared from the private market; and the work week exploding while vacation time plummeted. Maybe we should stop having taxpayers subsidize children so heavily through tax policy (even health insurance subsidizes large families by keeping the same premiums and family deductibles for 3 to 15 children).

Massive national unemployment will continue be the norm for many years hence, and newly-minted graduates of both high school and college are at a huge disadvantage as they compete with displaced workers with experience. "The teenage unemployment rate is the highest in nearly half a century coming in at over 24.2 percent...those with college degrees are facing the highest unemployment in two decades since records started being kept... those with college degrees are losing jobs in large numbers as well." Does a College Degree Protect your Career? Unemployment Rate for College Graduates Highest on Record. "They will enter an economy where roughly 17% of people aged 20 through 24 do not have a job, and where two million college graduates are unemployed. They will enter a world where they will compete tooth and nail for jobs as waitresses, pizza delivery men, file clerks, bouncers, trainee busboys, assistant baristas, interns at bodegas." College Students This Is Your Future: High Unemployment And Student Loan Hell

The problem is that while government pushes for 100% high school graduation rates (paid for with taxes), and colleges are subsidized by taxes as well as pushing to maximizing those who can afford the tuition payments, American businesses continue to minimize the number of people they hire. Businesses won't hire a single extra person, even if there are twice as many college graduates next year--they'll just hire the same number but offer even lower pay and less benefits. With 150 people fighting for every job, beggars can't be choosers.

What is truly sad is that we have overpopulated the labor market to the point that employers can consider someone offering 40 to 80 hours per week of educated work a "beggar."

If we want future generations to have a Middle Class, we need to stop flooding the labor markets with educated and over-educated young adults. To do this, having parents bear more of the cost of the children they choose to have is critical. When the $20,000 or more per year cost of public schooling (capital plus operating costs) is sent to someone other than the parents, there is no incentive for parents to stop over-producing children.

In addition, school and teacher unions have become so greedy (after having their budgets rubber-stamped without question for decades) that in many places (like NH)--even before addressing the public pension crises--property taxes have skyrocketed to rates that are forcing seniors, and even working people that have suffered wage stagnation and shifting of benefits costs, to sell their paid-for homes at a loss.

High schools should focus much more on vocational exposure and training, and less on simply preparing everyone for college. By sending everyone to college and having taxpayers subsidize the cost through taxes, all we have done is make the $100,000 college degree equal what a high school diploma used to be--during the same period when pensions disappeared. This does not bode well for America's future, for any of us.
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