Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This is what happens when you do stupid things like raise minimum wage..
CEO's get rid of employees, replace them with machines, barcode scanners, technology, outsource jobs to 3rd world countries, thereby lowering the pressure on wages in america because you get more people looking for work, results in lower employee pay.
I tried telling you guys this, but you liberals wouldnt listen.. It was waaaa waaa.. people cant earn a living on minimum wage.. Well hows it feel to not earning ANYTHING while the CEO's that replaced your jobs get bonuses for saving their corporations money?
Ironic how people earn less when minimum wage goes up.. isnt it? I TOLD YOU SO!!!
And in the Philly area if you're earning only $40K in 2011 and not in the ghetto or equivalent of section 8 housing you're struggling big time. Barley making ends meat.
Last edited by CK78; 03-21-2011 at 12:56 PM..
Reason: Adding
GuyNTexas says IT ALL Here!!!!
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas No. I'm really disagreeing with .. not missing your point. And those numbers don't tell a very accurate story, and the proof is demonstrated by the drop in net worth of middle income earners as their debt has increased significantly, while earnings have declined relative to inflation.
By most measurable data points, the middle income class has been dying a very slow, incremental death for 4 decades because the costs on high ticket items have increased more rapidly than the either the inflation rate or rates of increases in income. To further compound the problem, average income levels have failed to keep pace with the inflation rate itself. Much of this goes unnoticed because of it's slow incremental nature (like growing old). But if you are old enough, and still maintain your mental faculties, you can't be bull $hted into believing what you are trying to say here.
As just one example, in 1977, I bought a brand new Pontiac Trans Am for $5200. And since it was my first car purchase, I suspect I was clubbed like a baby seal (paid full MSRP), as I simply asked how much, and said OK (later I learned the error of this way to purchase automobiles )
Now today, that car is no longer available, but a comparable car "Chevy Camero SS" is. And a similarly configured model is around $35,000 MSRP. Which is almost double the adjusted for inflation number of $18,700 that Camero should cost relative to the $5200 Trans Am of 1977.
My income back then was 14,000 or just shy of 3 times what the car cost ... if you apply that same formula to the $35,000 Camero today, I'd have to earn roughly $100,000 per year to maintain the same standard (drive the same car) as my $14,000 income provided then. I was not wealthy then .. I was a 20 year old working in a warehouse driving a forklift. And I don't think there are many 6 figure forklift drivers around today ... I would say, the 40-50K range would be the upper limit ... or roughly the same as my $14,000 would be, adjusted for inflation.
This is one example, and almost any big item ... car, house, etc. works out to be the same. Some other items like Healthcare have dramatically exceeded those rates exponentially compared to 1977 where mine was absolutely free and first rate, including dental.
Now, add to this the higher taxes, social security withholding, and medicare ... all of which have exceeded the inflation rate (and don't let anyone BS you into believing it hasn't), means that the net spending power of your income has declined dramatically over the past 30+ years.
Now around about that same time frame, my step father worked for one of the US Government agencies earning roughly in the 50-60K range, and at the time, that was very good money, but not even close to RICH & Wealthy .... but adjusted for inflation, that comes out to around $200+K now. The house he purchased then at $50,000 appraised for $480,000 in 2004-5 even though the adjusted for inflation value would have only dictated a $155,000 figure ... 3 times the inflation rate!! By the time he retired in the late 90's, his income may have doubled, yet his house increased by 6-8 fold. What does that tell you?
Now if you are following me here ... this is where it gets real hairy ... if you take a Quarter ... 25 cents ... from say 1964 (the last 90% silver Quarter) that 25 cents equates to $1.76 in 2010 value. But guess what? Today's melt value of that sliver quarter is about $3.70 which is again more than double the published inflation rate ....
So what does that all mean? It means very simply, that the value of your money is worth about half of what it's claimed to be worth, even after being adjusted for inflation .... and all it takes is to actually look at the historical costs of items like cars, and houses and health care costs from the late 60's to today, and also the median incomes. You see that the purchasing power has indeed declined. And this is a result of the devaluation of the currency (a hidden tax).
So when it comes to buying power, there has been a continuous decline that doubles the the inflation rates admitted .. which is why the middle class really doesn't exist for all practical purposes today.
There are the ultra wealthy, and the rest. The $250kers are just at the higher end of that rest of us, and they are the last of the upper middle class, and the next in line to fall ... apparently, much to delight of many who think that they are members of the Wealthy Club, and must fall for the sake of everyone.
I suppose this proves that indeed, misery loves company.
LOL @ the serfs on this thread, trying to justify the unjustifiable, and making excuses for the Lords of the manors that are ripping them off and enriching themselves while contributing to the ultimate decline of American prosperity and our once enviable standard of living. Plantation mentalities at their finest, masked as libertarian, free market freedom fighters, lol!
If you have 100 employees and have "no money" to give them each 1000/year raises, you have no business taking a million dollar bonus yourself, because you FAILED as CEO. You FAILED to do anything but increase profits, and if ALL you did was increase profits, without increasing worker loyalty, corporate culture or improved conditions for those you depend on to MAKE and sustain profits, then you've only done a third the job you SHOULD have done.
LOL @ the serfs on this thread, trying to justify the unjustifiable, and making excuses for the Lords of the manors that are ripping them off and enriching themselves while contributing to the ultimate decline of American prosperity and our once enviable standard of living.Plantation mentalities at their finest, masked as libertarian, free market freedom fighters, lol!
If you have 100 employees and have "no money" to give them each 1000/year raises, you have no business taking a million dollar bonus yourself, because you FAILED as CEO. You FAILED to do anything but increase profits, and if ALL you did was increase profits, without increasing worker loyalty, corporate culture or improved conditions for those you depend on to MAKE and sustain profits, then you've only done a third the job you SHOULD have done.
Kudos to you!!! People today are so conditioned and brainwashed they're like little pet dogs to the elite. They'll lap up anything until the day they find themselves under marshall law and/or in a FEMA camp.
And in the Philly area if you're earning only $40K in 2011 and not in the ghetto or equivalent of section 8 housing you're struggling big time. Barley making ends meat.
LOL @ the serfs on this thread, trying to justify the unjustifiable, and making excuses for the Lords of the manors that are ripping them off and enriching themselves while contributing to the ultimate decline of American prosperity and our once enviable standard of living. Plantation mentalities at their finest, masked as libertarian, free market freedom fighters, lol!
If you have 100 employees and have "no money" to give them each 1000/year raises, you have no business taking a million dollar bonus yourself, because you FAILED as CEO. You FAILED to do anything but increase profits, and if ALL you did was increase profits, without increasing worker loyalty, corporate culture or improved conditions for those you depend on to MAKE and sustain profits, then you've only done a third the job you SHOULD have done.
I'm sorry but you are flat out wrong.. Thats right.. I'm saying it.. WRONG..
If I own a company, all of the profits of that company ARE MINE.. When I lay off employees, if the net result of doing so increases my profits, then again, whats left over IS MINE.. ITS MY COMPANY..
You are welcome to create a company to compete against me, and take away my profits.. Why dont you?
I am under no obligation to increase employees for the sake of reducing my profits, nor have I seen any rational reason to explain why I should.. Is having a job considered the latest welfare entitlement? I dont think so!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by CK78
Kudos to you!!! People today are so conditioned and brainwashed they're like little pet dogs to the elite. They'll lap up anything until the day they find themselves under marshall law and/or in a FEMA camp.
You should have posted a bs warning before posting.. I mean seriously, marshall law? FEMA camps?
The private sector does not operate in a vacuum. You can't just do as you wish. The CEO still has to follow all sorts of laws including laws about pension contributions, fair hiring practices and adherence to laws governing the environment.
I'm sorry but you are flat out wrong.. Thats right.. I'm saying it.. WRONG..
Your way of thinking is leading this country into an abyss. It's quite frankly embarassing to hear people with your perspective who ACTUALLY believe the nonsense business philosophy you espouse. Deep down I think most people who have your perspective either a) don't really believe it, and know their greed is unjustifiable, or b) REALLY have no sense of loyalty to countryman or moral compass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
If I own a company, all of the profits of that company ARE MINE.. When I lay off employees, if the net result of doing so increases my profits, then again, whats left over IS MINE.. ITS MY COMPANY..
Ah, the short sighted, "living in a bubble" text book free market perspective. As if the CEO of Bank of America OWNS a candle shop that sells to Gladys the baker, who sells her wares to John the blacksmith!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
You are welcome to create a company to compete against me, and take away my profits.. Why dont you?
What does that have to do with CEO compensation outstripping wage growth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
I am under no obligation to increase employees for the sake of reducing my profits, nor have I seen any rational reason to explain why I should.. Is having a job considered the latest welfare entitlement? I dont think so!!
Really? There's NO rational reason or explanation acceptable to you as to WHY reduced employee wages and degredation of purchasing power is a BAD thing for the long term prospects of a company? You can't think of ANY negative consequences to society (and thus, a business reliant on consumer purchasing) when a yawning chasm between the "haves" and the "have nots" develops? REALLY? There aren't dozens of articles and position papers explaining the dangers of such a setup? There aren't dozens of countries around the world that can show you EXACTLY where America is headed if something isn't done to reverse wage deflation at the lower consumer end? REALLY? It never piqued your interest? Or you don't bother because it goes against some silly need to hold on to ideology at the cost of pragmatism?
Please tell me that's not what they're teaching at business schools these days!
BTW, CEOs rarely "own" their companies, and small business CEOs are rarely the ones extracting million dollar bonuses. We're not talking ma and pa businesses, we're talking multi-national, complex corporate structure companies, sitting on TRILLIONS in cash, crying poverty while providing multi-million bonuses to executives. All the while voraciously extracting the benefits of socialized business risk for themselves while decrying any regulation meant to socialize business benefits as the second coming of Stalin.
I'm sorry but you are flat out wrong.. Thats right.. I'm saying it.. WRONG..
If I own a company, all of the profits of that company ARE MINE.. When I lay off employees, if the net result of doing so increases my profits, then again, whats left over IS MINE.. ITS MY COMPANY..
You are welcome to create a company to compete against me, and take away my profits.. Why dont you?
I am under no obligation to increase employees for the sake of reducing my profits, nor have I seen any rational reason to explain why I should.. Is having a job considered the latest welfare entitlement? I dont think so!!
You should have posted a bs warning before posting.. I mean seriously, marshall law? FEMA camps?
Give it a little more time. They're very real possibilities? People who think the "recession" is ending have their head in the clouds. It's going to collapse. They can't print money forever. And when it does the mask will come off and you'll learn whose really in charge. And it is not Obama and the other marionettes in Washington DC.
Right now they're still in pillaging/robbing mode. When they have their fill and there's nothing left to take they'll move to the next phase.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
) 
People today are so conditioned and brainwashed they're like little pet dogs to the elite. They'll lap up anything until the day they find themselves under marshall law and/or in a FEMA camp.
