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Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
An interpretation of history isn't limited to the winners. Losers do that too, they just do it in the capacity of what they are, however. They simply wait for their turn, sometimes forever.
But, to an educated outsider, it doesn't take much to see hypocrisy.
I agree. There is nothing about war that is good or right. It is a sorry deal all around and a historical interpretation is often given to glorify the victor and demonize the loser. Hypocrisy has always been the modus operandi of humanity.
I agree. There is nothing about war that is good or right. It is a sorry deal all around and a historical interpretation is often given to glorify the victor and demonize the loser. Hypocrisy has always been the modus operandi of humanity.
To be more blunt, lying has always been the modus operandi of humanity
So if we play nice, they will too? Is that the rationale?
No. The simple rationale is that torture is almost always counterproductive because it almost never produces actionable intelligence and it ends up alienating third party groups who would other wise be on your side. In other words it does nothing positive for your side or your cause but is likely to harm your side/cause when the enemy makes propaganda points about you being evil torturers.
As a rational person you should be able to figure out why doing things which harm your position (even if they make you feel better or think it's deserved) is not a good idea. The US got way more intelligence out of German and Italian POWs simply by using the long term interrogation technique of building friendships with POWs and treating them well then the Nazis ever got out of torturing allied prisoners. Most interrogation techniques which actually work and produce reliable information involve convincing people they were wrong about you instead of confirming their opinion that you're horrible non-humans. If you torture them they'll likely tell you what ever they think you want to hear to make the torture stop plus you'll lose a whole lot of folks on the fence when the word that you torture gets out. It's called upholding your values even as you get the job done.
Excellent examples of how to win against terrorists without compromising your values are how West Germany used regular law enforcement to track down and arrest the Red Brigadesin the 60's and 70's. How the UK slowly worked against the IRA both in the streets but importantly in the media consistently showing how the UK acted better then the IRA did thus helping to undermine the IRA's legitimacy. Compare that to how Turkey tortured and repressed the Kurds thus encouraging tons of moderate Kurds to join the fight which continued for decades. Or you could also look at how the use of torture and suspension of normal legal practices undermined the legitimacy of the French in Algeria playing into the hands of the revolutionaries. If you want to win you don't do things which hurt your side especially if the enemy can use it against you.
With what? Neo Progs always go on and on about how wrong water boarding is and that it is torture, a violation of the Geneva Convention, blah, blah, blah, but now they are cheering the killing of this sick puppy. So, which is it; water boarding a terrorist is torture, but murdeingr a terrorist is okay?
What the heck is a neo progressive (i assume that is what you mean by neo prog)?
Anyone on the left who is happy about UBL being dead needs to remember that waterboarding is the thing that got this ball rolling.
and rendition (holding people without trial in places like GITMO) was the second thing that got us to UBL.
those are two things the left seems to abhor (at least on paper)
Exactly!!
But the lefties refuse to admit/believe this. They want to let their 'messiah' take full credit and try to avoid the facts of how this was won. This was a several year, collaborative, effort and waterboarding and Gitmo played a big role in this achievement.
Demwits.....want to only see their side of things.
Do you really think that Bin Laden is dead? He is just retired
Is he pining for the fjords?
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Neo Progs always go on and on about how wrong water boarding is and that it is torture, a violation of the Geneva Convention, blah, blah, blah, but now they are cheering the killing of this sick puppy. So, which is it; water boarding a terrorist is torture, but murdeingr a terrorist is okay?
