The real problem in America (Rush Limbaugh, suspect, Clinton, solutions)

[lifelongMOgal]

Originally Posted by nmnita

and what do you suggest we do about it? The two party system has always been based on who is right, who is wrong and coming to the middle somehow, which I think will happen.

Nita

There is little difference between today's two major parties. Progressives run the GOP for the most part and they are no different than the Progressives in the DNC.

It is time for real change. A return to the founding principles which made this country great.

[Mt-7]

Obama is a puppet figure head of the cronies that wanted to win the White House, I actually feel great sorry for what has been done to him. He may be an upstanding guy but he was taken for a ride. His legacy will be not flattering.
Everything is a spin an ride game no matter what party you are looking at.

[Dutchman01]

Originally Posted by geeoro

The whole point of a two party system is that the party not in power has a role in policing the party in power. There is a HUGE difference between "policing" and "Destroying".
I watched as Obama was labelled as the "worst president ever" before he had even entered the Whitehouse. I watched the media decide that Obama's policies had failed before he was even inaugerated. This is NOT positive policing but biased partisan B/S. How can you tell "who is right,who is wrong" before the President has even had one day in office?
I am sorry to say that the hate fests carried out in past elections will fade into insignificance when the 2012 elections come around. People are being whipped into a frenzy by biased media, racism, homophobia and self interest groups. The word "patriotism" is now a tool to stir up hot blood and instill hatred for opposing views.
This is no longer about Who is best for America but Who will rule America.
We can all be "clever" on these blogs and spend our time trying to convince with "smart ass" remarks or blogs but that just keeps the partisan flames growing higher and higher. Democrat or Republican, we should all step back, stop being brainwashed by the biased media and their "outraged" presenters, think before we act and think America before thinking Dem or GOP.
This is NOT the United States of Democrats or the United States of the GOP but the United States of AMERICA. Have we not moved forward since the civil war.... Americans hating Americans..... then it was North against South now it's a new civil war Dem's against GOP with just as much venom, if not more than in 1861. This "war" has no winners, only losers and the losers are the everyday American.
This partisan fighting stops America moving ahead, kills any chance of real change and progress. America needs Good health care for ALL Americans. Good Schooling for ALL Americans. Good paying jobs for ALL Americans. Increasing homegrown productivity and manufacturing for ALL Americans. Using our tax Dollar for ALL Americans and not for foreign regimes....... Don't you think that is enough to be getting on with, solving America's problems not all the problems of the World, leaving America on the back burner. Partisan hatred puts a HALT to any real progress.
Mr. & Mrs. Republican and Democrat .... Stop scoring points against each other and Stop making your high earning friends and colleauges richer at the expense of America and hard working Americans. Do it now before we become another "has been" Nation

In point of fact it would be most of the flyover states, aka country class, vs. the northeast and west coast this time around. BTW we, conservatives, tend to see this as a "large government types" vs "small government types" not enriching the rich at the expense of the hardworking types. The working poor generally speaking doesn't much care for socialistic policies.



source

The Democrats’ working-class problem
Text Size PrintE-mailReprintsBy Joan C. Williams, Published: April 22
President Obama, ever the gifted orator, has hit some excellent notes as he shapes the Democrats’ message on the deficit. He also has hit some wrong ones — and has failed to correct mistakes Democrats have been making for 40 years. Because when Democrats talk about the poor, they can wind up losing more votes than they win. ¶ A key constituency in any national election is white voters who are neither rich nor poor — the working-class families whose median income is $64,000. This group, overwhelmingly Democratic before 1970, has abandoned the Democrats in large numbers, creating a conservative center in American politics. Obama needs these voters in 2012. And his team needs to learn some basic messages about how this group sees the world, in particular about their attitudes toward the rich and the poor, and about certain phrases that may not resonate with them. The donkey’s tin ear should end here...................

[GregW]

Maybe the Voting Rights Act that extended the voting to a large number of blacks had something to do with "working class" Democrats switching sides and joining their own enemies? The shift was not based on econmics or self interest it was rooted in racial hatred. The Republicans exploited that hatred with surpreme skill and the country has suffered greatly from their victories.

[Dutchman01]

Originally Posted by GregW

Maybe the Voting Rights Act that extended the voting to a large number of blacks had something to do with "working class" Democrats switching sides and joining their own enemies? The shift was not based on econmics or self interest it was rooted in racial hatred. The Republicans exploited that hatred with surpreme skill and the country has suffered greatly from their victories.

That's highly doubtful. If you'll remember the last serving member of the senate to have been a bona fide member of the kkk was senator byrd, a democrat.

The roots of racism within the progressive movement go back a long ways. The original democratic party member who was a leader of the progressive movement was woodrow wilson. His racism was well known. Here's one of my favorite pictures regarding a well known feminist icon, margarent sanger. The organization she founded "planned parenthood" is known for targeting black neighborhoods with abortions. Were you aware that one out of three black pregnancies ended with abortion? That's not an accident, or a result of racism within the republican party. Most all republicans are right to lifers for all races.

[Strel]

Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal

What you seem to fail to recognize in your post is that the political divisivness is exactly due to one group wanting to return to the country that was once respected around the world, a fiscally responsible country with people depending on themselves and on family primarily and the government rarely.

vs.

That group that wants to fundamentally change this country to something it is was never intended: a European style Socialist democracy of large central government and reduced Constitutionally affirmed liberties, a welfare state.

Wow, someone missed the point of the thread, eh?

[btsilver]

I see half the posters in this thread missed the point entirely.

[filihok]

Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal

What you seem to fail to recognize in your post is that the political divisivness is exactly due to one group wanting to return to the country that was once respected around the world, a fiscally responsible country with people depending on themselves and on family primarily and the government rarely.

vs.

That group that wants to fundamentally change this country to something it is was never intended: a European style Socialist democracy of large central government and reduced Constitutionally affirmed liberties, a welfare state.

Originally Posted by Irishiis49

And round and round we go...!

Originally Posted by Fox Terrier

LOL
What YOU seem to fail to recognize in YOUR post is you just proved Geeoro's point (in spades).

Originally Posted by hotair2

And here is an example.

Originally Posted by PDD

This is just what the OP had in mind when he made his post.

Go look in the mirror and see who he is talking about.

Awesome

[Felix C]

I think the real problem is that discourse appears to be no longer an option and the media presents the outside fringe elements of both parties as their own mainstream. I do recall when CNNs' Crossfire was as controversial as was depicted regarding the Left and the Right. That is now quite tame compared to what is presented. Internet has made things worse, that is unprofessional, in that data is manipulated to fit a doctrine. This is where we, the Public, obtain information so as to be able to take a stand on issues but the information is so contradictory that one is unable to take a stand. I have never felt so entirely uniformed as I have in the previous few years of watching/read the so called news.

The real problem is not agreeing as to what the real problem is AND mutual respect and consideration is lacking. Somehow being in your face has become the deciding point on whether a person or policy is better fitted than actually explaining a policy or doctrine.

Another post in another thread mentiones how politics has become more of a media sport event than a responsibile governance issue. I suspect that is correct.

[geeoro]

Originally Posted by RCCCB

What country were you in again?
America

Democrats want socialism.
Do you actually understand Socialism? Have you ever lived in a socialist Country? Do you know the difference between Socialism and Communism? Is Socialism ok in America when it applies to big corporation hand outs or do you call that something else? America already has socialism and it has done so under Republican and Democratic administrations.
Conservatives and some Republicans want small functioning government that can pay their bills.
So why was Govt not made smaller when the Republicans were in Office???? Is this the new "catch phrase" to unseat the Govt now in office? Action talks B/S walks

Telling people they need to work, be responsible, live with smaller government and only temporary social safety nets (except for permanently disabled) is not disdain for the everyday American unless the everyday American is living on a regular basis on the dole.
Giving huge tax cuts and incentives to huge corporations IS disdain for the everyday American who pay full taxes with NO real incentives.
Do you know what a real safety net is? A real safety net makes sure that unfortunate people having a tough time do NOT fall through the cracks... oops i forgot it doesn't affect the high earners so "to hell with them there poor folk"..... "I'm alright Jack"

Our President, the one you thought was the best guy in 2008 has raised our national debt by 50% in just over two years and given most of the supposed stimulus to government unions who helped elect him with $400,000,000 in donations.
So rebuilding the Country after probably the worst recession in history was going to be a "free ride?" Obama just snaps his fingers and the Country heals itself...... NOT. To rebuild from the damage caused will cost billions.... maybe if there had been no recession when Obama took office he would have had NO need to raises the national debt. just like many Presidents have done before him. He is trying to bring the tax code back to the Clinton era when the national debt fell. I suppose Banks are Unions,,, Car industry are Unions etc etc? Obama walked into the biggest mess America had ever seen and now the Economy IS turning around, Employment IS going up and he is doing a good job.... fact.
We are broke, some still don't want to cut government employment, salaries and the social programs.
There is no $$$$$$.
At some point people have to GROW UP and learn to live within a balanced budget.
Balanced for whose benefit? The "Fat Cats" with their multi million bonuses and tax loopholes or the everyday American who pay ALL their taxes and do not get bonuses when they do a BAD job...like so many do in the financial market and huge corporations.
America was in massive debt to China etc long before Obama came into office. The War cost America dearly... Before Obama. America didn't go into recession befor Obama because it was swimming in money... No it was going broke already. China virtually owns America,,,, Before Obama also. Because the Country is going broke now doesn't mean the fuse wasn't lit before this administration

We have two visions in this nation which is why you see a division.
Two Views are good unless they are constantly changing to destroy the other party as is seen happening in America today.... I watch often as a "view" changes as soon as the other party adopts it or a "new" view appears once out of office... amazing how politicians suddenly get "common sense" when NOT in office but it soon evaporates once elected.

One is everything under the government. Socialized medicine (high taxes), tons of government employees (again higher taxes) and many on social programs (again higher taxes and huge deficits).
Socialized medicine does NOT equate to high taxes but does improve the health and wealth of a Country. If a UHC had been allowed to be implemented by Obama the need for new employees would probably have cut the unemployment by about 50%.... Builders, Architects, Doctors, Nurses, Tech staff, Cooks, Cleaners, Security staff, Etc Etc Etc, let alone the need to produce Ambulances and other assorted vehicles. Machinery, x-ray machines etc etc etc... hey but NO let's just keep financing the private health insurance companies and the " i wanna jet" Doctors. They don't have to worry about high taxes even though they are involved in the most expensive and least efficient health service in the Industrialized World. I cannot tell you how much my tax was for my health and welfare in the UK as it was so small i never paid any real attention to it and neither do many in the UK.... it works and works well.
The other wants to cut things down to reality and allow people to conduct business, grow and pay taxes through being productive.
How can you be productive when your Industry has been sent abroad? How can you have jobs when you outscource your jobs abroad and destroy American Industry??????????
How can you earn from taxes when the high earners get a free pass on paying full taxes?
Doesn't hold water.

The common man is not on the dole or a government employee, those are drags on our society and country when they are bloated. We are VERY BLOATED.

The BIGGEST drain on America right now is the greed of huge corporations who feel that "socialism" only applies to them and "fleecing" the Country is their meal ticket to Wealth. The other is the Wars and handouts to foreign despots.