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Old 05-13-2011, 09:07 AM
 
Location: it depends
6,369 posts, read 6,407,529 times
Reputation: 6388

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post

..............my time and talent is going to cost you more than the other guy getting the same work. I couldn't do that under communism. Everyone gets the same pay. Why should I go above and beyond anymore.
Bentbow's point is the root of the matter. Capitalism brings out our best efforts; communism removes all incentives to make an effort.

There is a reason that even small grocery stores in America bring us thousands of products from three or more continents while in North Korea, the people eat grass and tree bark.

The issue of state corporatism is serious, but that is another discussion. The closer we get to having the same rules for every player, away from the politician's penchant to give wealth and breaks and favors to the owners of NASCAR tracks and importers of rum and ethanol distillers and builders of windmills etc., the better off we will be.
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Old 05-13-2011, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,446 posts, read 16,183,316 times
Reputation: 6958
Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
Allende was probably one of the most brutal dictators in existence. Pinochet was ALMOST as bad as him.

Socialists are like herpes. Once you're infected, you're left with literally a lifetime of suffering. Pinochet is a reminder of the infection that follows contracting the socialist virus. The Social Democrat party (largest party in Weimer) left the Germans with you know who.
A big vague on knowledge of history, eh?
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Old 05-13-2011, 10:11 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,611,558 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
Bentbow's point is the root of the matter. Capitalism brings out our best efforts; communism removes all incentives to make an effort.

There is a reason that even small grocery stores in America bring us thousands of products from three or more continents while in North Korea, the people eat grass and tree bark.

The issue of state corporatism is serious, but that is another discussion. The closer we get to having the same rules for every player, away from the politician's penchant to give wealth and breaks and favors to the owners of NASCAR tracks and importers of rum and ethanol distillers and builders of windmills etc., the better off we will be.

Without competition, what do you have?
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Old 05-13-2011, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,054 posts, read 18,279,569 times
Reputation: 3826
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
A big vague on knowledge of history, eh?
Nah, I was pretty much specific (antonym of vague) on how Allende was worse than Pinochet. Stealing property, nationalizing businesses and starving the elderly and children vis-a-vis hyperinflation.
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Old 05-14-2011, 10:28 AM
 
3,728 posts, read 4,869,198 times
Reputation: 2294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomstudent View Post
I have read a fair amount of Milton Friedman and I always found it interesting that the Chicago school and Friedman touted liberty, but used one of the most brutal dictatorships in Latin America to impose their economic theories from on high.
Three things:

1) Milton Friedman had no direct connection to Pinochet's Chile. He visited the nation's universities once or twice and wrote a letter to Pinochet encouraging economic reform. He did the exact same thing with Yugoslavia as well. He visited the Economics Departments at various Yugoslavian universities and wrote a letter to Tito. I guess Friedman was a support of Communist Yugoslavia as well...

2) Pinochet didn't start the free market experiment until about three years after getting into power and he only did so because the economy was doing so poorly that he was willing to take a chance and try out new economic theories. Despite the slander from left-wingers, Pinochet did not take over Chile with the intention of establishing the least regulated economy possible, but rather because he knew Allende was on his way out one way or another (other Generals in Chile's armed forces, the majority of the voting population, and the CIA were all working to remove him from power) and it was a cynical power grab.

3) Pinochet's Chile was hardly "one of the most brutal dictatorships in Latin America". For example, the highest estimates of people killed by his regime over the 17 years he held power is 10,000 with the majority of estimates being around 3,000 or so. Most of those being members of the Communist Party and members of the military that supported Allende. While Castro and Che had over 3,000 people killed within their first year in power. Oh, and Pinochet stepped down semi-voluntarily and left Chile a democratic and mostly developed nation while Cuba is still stuck in the early 60s.
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