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Did he tell you that? Or is that your analysis? If he did tell you that, may I ask you specifically what denomination he was? Or what type of church it is? There are a lot of different types of "non denominational" churches. Can you elaborate on what some their teachings were?
No it is not my analysis. That is pretty much what he said. As far as the type of church that honestly does not matter. Regardless I find that is does make sense when you factor in a few other factors.
Perhaps my experience is more unqiue than I thought. Or perhaps not too many people have had the privilege of crossing lines inadvertently.
I dont understand why a church would welcome you in one area and absolutely forbid you in another then practically nail you to a cross without explanation unless it is strategic.
No it is not my analysis. That is pretty much what he said. As far as the type of church that honestly does not matter. Regardless I find that is does make sense when you factor in a few other factors.
Perhaps my experience is more unqiue than I thought. Or perhaps not too many people have had the privilege of crossing lines inadvertently.
I dont understand why a church would welcome you in one area and absolutely forbid you in another then practically nail you to a cross without explanation unless it is strategic.
I think a lot of churches want to help the poor. At first I mis-read your post. I thought you were suggesting that they somehow misuse or exploit the poor. I'm currently interviewing for a pastoral position myself. I don't particularly want a church full of rich people that think they're doing me a favor by tithing every week. I would prefer a church of humble people that are seeking God's will and are teachable. Perhaps that's what he meant. I don't know.
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Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
You haven't looked too far. There are churches who don't believe that their version is the only valid one.
I would question why someone would want to attend a church that doesn't believe they can tell you how to get to heaven. Or one that thinks there are multiple ways--even if they contradict.
Forgive my ignorance but I cannot help but be a bit puzzled. In the current economic climate with so many people loosing their jobs/pensions and overall economic security how are many of these churches able to sustain themselves? Especially the megachurches?
I grew up in a very small church so my understanding of how large churches (500+) operate is very limited. My small church that my family used to belong to depended very much on membership tithes.
This cannot be the case with many of the contemporary non-denominational churches I see today. Lighting and sound stages, marketing and advertising, children services and extensive social programs/conferences...where is the funding coming from? What is it that I am not seeing?
I was told by a pastor one Sunday that about 30% of the congregation give regular tithes. Is that enough to support a 1,000+ member church with all the amenities and activities? Something is not adding up?
Is it private donors donating large sums of money? Is it business contracts? Who/what is it that has such "political" sway in the strategic decision making of the church? There are some churches that I visit that seems to be operating under the same type of "framework"...all the way down to the bible study lessons taught in Sunday school.
70 years ago no two churches were exactly alike. Who/what is funding the churches and why do so many seem to be operating under a strategic invisible framework?
Often church members leave money or property in their wills when they die, and the money is invested.
I used to go to this little Episcopal church that had a very small regular congregation of mostly working people. They owned a building next door that was rented to a pre-school, so that was a source of income. However, there used to be this one old lady who came in late every Sunday with her caretaker. She would loudly ask what hymn we were singing, what page everyone was on, etc., and people would just kind of snicker softly. She had this uncombed, stringy gray hair and always wore a badly wrinkled trenchcoat. Well, she finally died, and she left a couple hundred grand to the church.
I think a lot of churches want to help the poor. At first I mis-read your post. I thought you were suggesting that they somehow misuse or exploit the poor. I'm currently interviewing for a pastoral position myself. I don't particularly want a church full of rich people that think they're doing me a favor by tithing every week. I would prefer a church of humble people that are seeking God's will and are teachable. Perhaps that's what he meant. I don't know.
I would question why someone would want to attend a church that doesn't believe they can tell you how to get to heaven. Or one that thinks there are multiple ways--even if they contradict.
Not believing they can tell you how to get to heaven is not the same thing as a church saying it's OUR way or nothing.
My church has communion every Sunday. It's an important part of the Episcopal service. As a matter of fact, I've been to Episcopal softball games in the park--with communion held first at a picnic table. Ice cream social--communion afterwards. New Year's Eve party--communion at midnight. Many churches don't ever do communion, or only a few times a year. Does the Episcopal Church believe that people in those other churches are "wrong" or "not going to heaven"? No, of course not.
I think a lot of churches want to help the poor. At first I mis-read your post. I thought you were suggesting that they somehow misuse or exploit the poor. I'm currently interviewing for a pastoral position myself. I don't particularly want a church full of rich people that think they're doing me a favor by tithing every week. I would prefer a church of humble people that are seeking God's will and are teachable. Perhaps that's what he meant. I don't know.
I would question why someone would want to attend a church that doesn't believe they can tell you how to get to heaven. Or one that thinks there are multiple ways--even if they contradict.
Teachable or Controllable? Because I think sometimes people believe they know whats best for other people and even going to the extent of causing harm towards them to get their point across.
Why would a church welcome you to volunteer in one area and then nearly forbid you to volunteer in another? Why would they allow others to hurt or harm you simply to teach you that is not your place to be there? How can they do this when you have experience in that area, disregard it and treat you as the worst of sorts? To this day when I see someone at the grocery store they look at me with contempt and I dont have a clue as to why, simply because I wanted to volunteer in another area? I had other members verbally question me. They told me, "you dont really want to do that so find another area". I mean, why in the world would people try to control someone like that? I was not even allowed to speak to certain people without suspicion. If you have ever been through anything like this, you know what an awful feeling it is to have people talk about you, talk about what to do with you (as if you are simply a rag) and not even know you. You hardly know anyone yet but they are encouraging you to make friends with this person but not this one. Your allowed to speak to this one but not this one. It got so bad that while I was doing some volunteer work I was told where to stand, where to look as if they did not trust my judgement. As if they thought I would run around the establishment like a loose dog or pigeon. That was not even the worst of it and to this day I dont get it.
Last edited by Lauren_Ashley; 06-01-2011 at 12:33 PM..
Teachable or Controllable? Because I think sometimes people believe they know whats best for other people and even going to the extent of causing harm towards them to get their point across.
Teachable. At least for me. Sometimes we allow money and pride to get in the way of learning. I'd prefer not to have a bunch of people that think they know it all and are too busy telling me what to do.
I know there are some churches that prey on the poor and weak. Specifically Word of Faith..." Name-it-and-claim-it" prosperity churches that tell you that if you just have faith you'll be rich. Guys like Benny Hinn, Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Copeland, etc.
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Why would a church welcome you to volunteer in one area and then nearly forbid you to volunteer in another? Why would they allow others to hurt or harm you simply to teach you that is not your place to be there? H
I honestly don't know the details of what you're asking about. Is there a specific situation that occurred? On the surface it seems like such an organization would not be a good one.
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ow can they do this when you have extensive experience in that area...disregard it and treat you as the worst of sorts? To this day they look at me with vile contempt and I dont have a clue as to why...simply because I wanted to volunteer in another area?!? I had other members verbally question me. They told me..."you dont really want to do that so find another area". I mean, why in the world would people try to control someone like that? I was not even allowed to speak to certain people without suspicion.
I don't know the circumstances, so I can't begin to comment in depth on it, but I can tell you are upset about the situation. Someday when I'm a pastor I will try to use people where they want to volunteer.
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Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
Not believing they can tell you how to get to heaven is not the same thing as a church saying it's OUR way or nothing.
Depends on the area in question. You no doubt realize I'm a pretty conservative guy, but I do believe that there are a lot of churches that have perfectly valid ways of doing things--even if they are different from one another.
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My church has communion every Sunday. It's an important part of the Episcopal service. As a matter of fact, I've been to Episcopal softball games in the park--with communion held first at a picnic table. Ice cream social--communion afterwards. New Year's Eve party--communion at midnight. Many churches don't ever do communion, or only a few times a year. Does the Episcopal Church believe that people in those other churches are "wrong" or "not going to heaven"? No, of course not.
I agree with what you're saying here. I am currently a member of a church that does it quarterly. The church I'm interviewing at does it monthly. I would think at least monthly would be good. But I'm not going to suggest that someone that does it quarterly or weekly are wrong. It's a non-essential issue.
Of course, the theology surrounding what communion is, and what it accomplishes might drastically differ between churches. That might be worth arguing over if it violates an essential belief.
I consider the mega churches to be nothing more than Mammon worshiping fools. You should give the Devil his due. He is a subtle bastard.
If ANY church says “my way or the highway”, take the highway. You can worship any God you believe in by thinking about it. No fancy preacher needed. No tithe needed either.
Teachable. At least for me. Sometimes we allow money and pride to get in the way of learning. I'd prefer not to have a bunch of people that think they know it all and are too busy telling me what to do.
I know there are some churches that prey on the poor and weak. Specifically Word of Faith..." Name-it-and-claim-it" prosperity churches that tell you that if you just have faith you'll be rich. Guys like Benny Hinn, Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Copeland, etc.
I honestly don't know the details of what you're asking about. Is there a specific situation that occurred? On the surface it seems like such an organization would not be a good one.
I don't know the circumstances, so I can't begin to comment in depth on it, but I can tell you are upset about the situation. Someday when I'm a pastor I will try to use people where they want to volunteer.
Depends on the area in question. You no doubt realize I'm a pretty conservative guy, but I do believe that there are a lot of churches that have perfectly valid ways of doing things--even if they are different from one another.
I agree with what you're saying here. I am currently a member of a church that does it quarterly. The church I'm interviewing at does it monthly. I would think at least monthly would be good. But I'm not going to suggest that someone that does it quarterly or weekly are wrong. It's a non-essential issue.
Of course, the theology surrounding what communion is, and what it accomplishes might drastically differ between churches. That might be worth arguing over if it violates an essential belief.
I am not so much upset as I am suspicious. I truly believe the decisions were strategic I am trying to understand the motivation behind it or least be given a possible vague explanation why a church would do that.
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