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Old 06-15-2011, 08:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
There is no shortage of oil I agree. What there is a shortage of is refining capacity. No refineries have been built in the US since 1976. Thank the EPA for that one. Add in the fact that there are 12 different blends that need to be made for US consumption depending on what part of the country you live in. This is one reason say California always has a higher cost for gas than most of the country not all refineries can produce the blend their laws require. Heck look at Iran. They import almost all their gas because they don't have any refining capacity. The EPA has been slowly destroying the energy sector in this country and if they shove through this carbon garbage we are all in some serious trouble. Quick fix to gas prices build more refining capacity. If it could only be so simple though.

Look at I think it was Shell who spent like three years and 4 billion dollars to start up drilling off Alaska and after going through all the red tape and EPA stuff they were shut down because some town of a couple hundred people where within some distance the EPA deemed was unacceptable. There's four billion Shell is gonna have to come up with somewhere and its our wallets for sure.
That may have some validity. Do you have a cite?
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Old 06-15-2011, 09:10 AM
 
29,407 posts, read 22,000,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
That may have some validity. Do you have a cite?
This will show the refining capacity of the us back to what was it early eighties I think. Not much increase after the late nineties. They updated and stretched those things to the limit and squeezed every drop out of em they can.

Weekly U.S. Refiner and Blender Adjusted Net Production of Finished Motor Gasoline (Thousand Barrels per Day)

We've also been importing a lot more refined gasoline than in the past.

Weekly U.S. Imports of Total Gasoline (Thousand Barrels per Day)

I've also read stories of tankers sitting offshore full of crude in countries just waiting there. Now the oil haters will say its the evil corporations holding out till the price is raised. I doubt that as they want to offload the stuff and go get more. I think there just waiting in line till they can get to a refinery.
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Old 06-15-2011, 09:24 AM
 
629 posts, read 1,721,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
Maybe, I still don't have an answer as to why it is cheaper to get crude oil from Saudia Arabia than oil we produce right here and then export?
It's basically an energy return on energy invested equation (which also roughly equates to money return on money invested).
EROEI - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"For example, when oil was originally discovered, it took on average one barrel of oil to find, extract, and process about 100 barrels of oil. That ratio has declined steadily over the last century to about three barrels gained for one barrel used up in the U.S. (and about ten for one in Saudi Arabia)."

Good reading on some of these energy issues is also over at the Oil Drum, The Oil Drum | Discussions about Energy and Our Future
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Old 06-15-2011, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,975 posts, read 47,611,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
This makes little sense to me. The U.S. is exporting a large quantity of oil. It is difficult to tell how much we export as a percent of production, but why do we export any? We obviously have a demand here in the U.S. because of the huge amount that we import so why don't we use our own oil.

It is a confusing maze because you have to look at both the refined fuel and the heavy oil.

I am not opposed to drilling, but where is the guarantee that if we drilled more that we would use the oil instead of exporting it to a better market, which brings up another question, why would another market be better.

U.S. Exports of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products
Something just does not add up here.
Private oil companies can do whatever they want with their oil. If they want to sell it to China, then they will sell it to China.
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Old 06-15-2011, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,447,554 times
Reputation: 6541
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
This makes little sense to me. The U.S. is exporting a large quantity of oil. It is difficult to tell how much we export as a percent of production, but why do we export any? We obviously have a demand here in the U.S. because of the huge amount that we import so why don't we use our own oil.

It is a confusing maze because you have to look at both the refined fuel and the heavy oil.

I am not opposed to drilling, but where is the guarantee that if we drilled more that we would use the oil instead of exporting it to a better market, which brings up another question, why would another market be better.

U.S. Exports of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products
Something just does not add up here.
Alaska exports 3% of the crude oil produced in the state.
  • 95% goes to the lower-48;
  • 2% stays in Alaska;
  • 1.5% goes to Taiwan;
  • 1% goes to South Korea; and
  • 0.5% goes to Russia.
Alaskan crude is slightly cheaper than the market price for sweet crude (less than 0.5% sulfur) because it has a slightly higher sulfur content (1.02%). The price is determined by the global market so the only reason those countries are buying Alaskan crude instead of crude from the middle-east or elsewhere is to save transportation costs.
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Old 06-15-2011, 09:51 AM
 
12,436 posts, read 11,945,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
Alaska exports 3% of the crude oil produced in the state.
  • 95% goes to the lower-48;
  • 2% stays in Alaska;
  • 1.5% goes to Taiwan;
  • 1% goes to South Korea; and
  • 0.5% goes to Russia.
Alaskan crude is slightly cheaper than the market price for sweet crude (less than 0.5% sulfur) because it has a slightly higher sulfur content (1.02%). The price is determined by the global market so the only reason those countries are buying Alaskan crude instead of crude from the middle-east or elsewhere is to save transportation costs.
Well the question remains. Why don't we buy all of it. Why does 3% go somewhere else?
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Old 06-15-2011, 09:56 AM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,038,764 times
Reputation: 15038
Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
There is no shortage of oil I agree. What there is a shortage of is refining capacity. No refineries have been built in the US since 1976. Thank the EPA for that one.
Sorry, but that's utter nonsense the "it's the governments fault meme" just ain't going to play.
In the mid-1990s too much refining capacity, not too little, concerned the nation’s major oil companies. At that time, the oil and gas industry faced what they termed “excess refining capacity,” a circumstance they viewed as a financial liability that drove down overall profit margins. The industry reduced the total amount of potential supply by closing down more
than 50 refineries in the past decade. Since 1995 alone, 24 refinery closings have taken nearly 830,000 barrels of oil per day.
http://wyden.senate.gov/issues/gas_p...oil_report.pdf

The three internal memos from Mobil, Chevron and Texaco illustrate how the oil juggernauts reduced refining capacity and drove independent refiners out of business in an effort to increase prices. The highly confidential memos reveal a nationwide effort by American Petroleum Institute, the lobbying and research arm of the oil industry, to encourage major refiners to close their refineries in the mid-1990s
.

http://www.infowars.com/articles/economy/oil_internal_memos_limited_refineries_drive_prices .htm (broken link)

Internal Memos Show Oil Companies Intentionally Limited Refining Capacity To Drive Up Gasoline Prices | Consumer Watchdog

According to the Energy Information Administration, the US had more than 300 operating refineries in the early 1980s. By 2007 the number of refineries in the US had been cut in half (down to 149). From 1975 to 2000, the US Environmental Protection Agency received only one permit request for a new refinery. A new refinery has not been built in the US since 1976.
http://www.bizmology.com/2007/12/26/why-aren’t-there-more-oil-refineries-in-the-us/ (broken link)

Another good read with precise analysis of oil markets:

http://www.consumerfed.org/elements/...soline1003.pdf
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Old 06-15-2011, 10:13 AM
 
8,289 posts, read 13,561,719 times
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The price of gas has more to due with demand than supply. Oil companies don't care about anything but their bottom line.If the Japanese are willing to pay more for a barrel of Oil than Americans what do you think Exxon-Mobil is going to do?
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Old 06-15-2011, 10:24 AM
 
12,436 posts, read 11,945,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiRob View Post
The price of gas has more to due with demand than supply. Oil companies don't care about anything but their bottom line.If the Japanese are willing to pay more for a barrel of Oil than Americans what do you think Exxon-Mobil is going to do?
Then why drill, if there are no guarantees that is going to go here and help our economy instead of multi national oil companies?
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Old 06-15-2011, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
11,155 posts, read 29,310,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
Maybe, I still don't have an answer as to why it is cheaper to get crude oil from Saudia Arabia than oil we produce right here and then export?
Canada sends it's crude south and the us ships back the refined oil you export it to Canada from crude that came from canada
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