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Old 06-18-2011, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
14,100 posts, read 28,534,474 times
Reputation: 8075

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Quote:
Originally Posted by j_cat View Post
If unions are so useless, then why the fuss over public-sector unions? You'd think people would be happy to let government employees throw their money away on a union that gives them nothing in return. Oh wait, it doesn't work that way.

Union membership is quite valuable, a fact that many conservatives inadvertently acknowledge, depending on the conversation.
Yep, valuable to the union bosses and Government workers right up until there are so many former employees collecting a pension, more workers than what the job calls for, and wages that don't reflect the knowledge or skills of the employee all result in a budget sinkhole or a corporation filing for bankruptcy. Unions have become a parasite that feeds off an animal until the animal dies.
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Old 06-18-2011, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Inland Levy County, FL
8,806 posts, read 6,112,361 times
Reputation: 2949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurbie View Post
You rang???

As ALWAYS happens, there are allegations of threats and harrassment by mamagers in the run-up to the vote.

Target managers threw their arms around the workers, saying:

"Hey, we're a team here. You don't need a union. The union only wants your dues money. They can't really do anything for you. They will just cause problems for you (hint, wink, nudge). They will turn you all into trouble-makers. You don't want us to think you're a bunch of trouble-makers, DO YOU??? You know, if you vote yes, and the union comes in here, we'll probably have to close this store. That would be a shame."

Promises and threats. The old capitalist one-two punch. Even so, the final vote was 135-85, not 220-0. So the union idea wasn't totally rejected, it just had insufficient votes.

They don't call it the labor "struggle" for nothing. I know the UFCW will keep trying.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/19/business/19target.html?hp
So you reject the idea that unions can cause a store to close due to driving up labor costs?
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Old 06-18-2011, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Land of debt and Corruption
7,545 posts, read 8,328,091 times
Reputation: 2889
Quote:
Originally Posted by j_cat View Post
Cool story. God forbid anyone stand up for workers' rights if the workers don't seem to want them (leaving out the question of behind-the-scenes pressure, just for the sake of argument).

If a bunch of slaves were like "no thanks, we're happy with slavery," would you just shrug and forget about it? Or be like "see, slavery is fine"?
OMG, the drama!! Are you seriously likening working at Target to slavery?

Why do you have such a low opinion of people who are voting in their own interests? Do you not trust that people have the ability to decide for themselves whether or not paying dues to some union fatcats is worthwhile and makes economic sense? Obviously not. Let me guess, you would like to impose unionization on them "for their own good"?
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Old 06-18-2011, 03:45 PM
 
5,719 posts, read 6,448,812 times
Reputation: 3647
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
Not everyone wants to exchange freedom for union slavery. But hey, that's not how it is in your mind, no problem.

Let me guess, you're either a govt union employee, a student, or a wannabe govt employee.
Having to accept whatever wage your employer offers is freedom? Having a say in the negotiating process is slavery?

To quote George Orwell, "War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. 2+2=5"
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Old 06-18-2011, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,495,743 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by juppiter View Post
Having to accept whatever wage your employer offers is freedom? Having a say in the negotiating process is slavery?

To quote George Orwell, "War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. 2+2=5"
You do not have to accept it. That is your freedom.
Say "No thank you" and go somewhere else.
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Old 06-18-2011, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
14,100 posts, read 28,534,474 times
Reputation: 8075
Quote:
Originally Posted by juppiter View Post
Having to accept whatever wage your employer offers is freedom? Having a say in the negotiating process is slavery?

To quote George Orwell, "War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. 2+2=5"
And feeding off the company until it goes out of business or files for bankruptcy is being a parasite.
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Old 06-18-2011, 03:56 PM
 
1,495 posts, read 2,300,944 times
Reputation: 811
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatyousay View Post
OMG, the drama!! Are you seriously likening working at Target to slavery?

Why do you have such a low opinion of people who are voting in their own interests? Do you not trust that people have the ability to decide for themselves whether or not paying dues to some union fatcats is worthwhile and makes economic sense? Obviously not. Let me guess, you would like to impose unionization on them "for their own good"?
Thanks for the straw men and disingenuous posturing, but anyway, my fairly obvious point was that people have rights, whether they ask for them or not. If you find yourself stepping on my toes, I hope you would take the initiative to move your foot, instead of waiting for me to say "hey, you're stepping on my toes."
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Old 06-18-2011, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Inland Levy County, FL
8,806 posts, read 6,112,361 times
Reputation: 2949
Quote:
Originally Posted by j_cat View Post
Thanks for the straw men and disingenuous posturing, but anyway, my fairly obvious point was that people have rights, whether they ask for them or not. If you find yourself stepping on my toes, I hope you would take the initiative to move your foot, instead of waiting for me to say "hey, you're stepping on my toes."
What "rights" are we referring to? Nobody has the right to a job, nobody has a right to a certain salary, nobody has a right to certain benefits....
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Old 06-18-2011, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Land of debt and Corruption
7,545 posts, read 8,328,091 times
Reputation: 2889
Quote:
Originally Posted by j_cat View Post
Thanks for the straw men and disingenuous posturing, but anyway, my fairly obvious point was that people have rights, whether they ask for them or not. If you find yourself stepping on my toes, I hope you would take the initiative to move your foot, instead of waiting for me to say "hey, you're stepping on my toes."
They exercised their right not to unionize. Why do you have a problem with that? Are their rights being violated through their employment at Target? From everything I hear, Target is a very good employer.

So what rights are being violated here? Please, do elaborate.
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Old 06-18-2011, 04:12 PM
 
1,495 posts, read 2,300,944 times
Reputation: 811
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatyousay View Post
They exercised their right not to unionize. Why do you have a problem with that? Are their rights being violated through their employment at Target? From everything I hear, Target is a very good employer.

So what rights are being violated here? Please, do elaborate.
It appears that Target employees do not have the right to unionize.
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