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lol. i'd rather live in today's world than the gilded age. No such thing as OSHA, FDA, wage regulations, anything of that sort back then. far less upward mobility.
Are you suggesting that we give liberals ultimate power to do anything and everything they want? Wow... you are a smart person...
No, just that we recognize that allowing the super wealthy to keep gaining advantage does not serve society in the long term. Liberal or conservative rule is not the issue, it is a matter of thinking about our society as a whole and striking balances of power that serve all Americans. The current arrangement is all about giving more and more power to those who already have more than their share.
And yes, there is a notion of a "fair share" in a modern democracy. It is a bipartisan concept, but when all the power is in a few hands, social justice plummets. It is self-evident.
So, in other words...You fully support the Wall Street debacle and businesses not reinvesting money into the economy of the United States. Gotcha. Well it takes people such as yourself to enable these "Robber Barons" to do what they do and not be held accountable. Good goin'!
Businesses WANT to reinvest money in the economy, but only if they can make money by doing so. The ultimate 'Robber Baron' is an overweaning government that thinks all wealth belongs to it. Why would I invest a dime more than I had to in to an economy in which there is so much government created doubt and insecurity?
I can't rep you again, Fiddlehead, but this pretty much nails it. The middle classes who are losing ground are so plugged into the propoganda machine that they are screaming for policies that will lead to their own demise. As long as their are a handful of liberals left in the government, the propogandists can always point to them as the culprit as things get worse and worse.
"We're trying to make life better for everyone but those darned old liberals are holding up progress," is the talking point as more and more people are locked out of employment, higher education, home ownership, etc. When all of the liberals are gone, they can always point to the less extreme members of their own party, the so-called "Rinos" as the problem. "Once we get these Rinos out of the way, we'll finally be able to eat again!"
It's gotten uglier and uglier for the last twenty years, and I see no sign of this lettting up. Fortunately for me, it's been a slow, gradual decline.. but it's depressing to live in an age of decline.
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Originally Posted by Fiddlehead
I think we are definitely heading that direction again. The large, multinational corporations are now pursuing increased profit through automation and outsourcing, eroding the American working and middle classes. The system is similarly rigged so that those who have power and money, aggregate and retain it, whereas those at the bottom are shut out. And for the unemployed, the shutout it is nearly complete. And to survive, they must borrow from the wealthy, by credit cards,etc.
And before someone does the "stealing" or Robin Hood schtick, recall that our wealthiest citizens have been cannibaliziing the economy for years with payday loans, bogus adjustable mortgages, hidden credit card fees, so they have not always come by their money honorably, to say the least.
The unique thing this time around is the tremendous influence of the propaganda machines. Working class poor of the 19th century did not aggressively fight to support the advantages of the super wealthy. They have been brainwashed by a steady diet of partisan radio and news to parrot talking points that favor the wealthy over environmental quality, economic and social equality, and basic human needs for health care and affordable education. And the harder it gets for the working man, the more likely he is to turn on the radio and look for a scapegoat, rather than to look at time-tested techniques for creating a just, equitable society.
My take is that the current age is an echo of the Gilded Age, with hints of pre-Nazi Germany, where propaganda and group think led to insanity.
No, just that we recognize that allowing the super wealthy to keep gaining advantage does not serve society in the long term. Liberal or conservative rule is not the issue, it is a matter of thinking about our society as a whole and striking balances of power that serve all Americans. The current arrangement is all about giving more and more power to those who already have more than their share.
And yes, there is a notion of a "fair share" in a modern democracy. It is a bipartisan concept, but when all the power is in a few hands, social justice plummets. It is self-evident.
While there is arguably a responsibility to serve the common good there is no duty to do so, at least not in a free country.
"Social Justice" is just a duplicitous way of saying "Gimme".
I think the Gilded Age is definitely the best metaphor for the America we're living in. You have the super wealthy, a huge group of people making $8 an hour and a dwindling group in the middle trying to have a middle class life fighting for fewer and fewer jobs.
I don't see this trend getting any better. The "solution" to this problem seems to be to support policy that will funnel more wealth to the top. Funding the LimBeck machine was the best investment the robber barons ever made.
I agree and am saddened that Obama has proven to be no FDR who fought against the "economic royalists." Instead, Obama accepts deals that are to the right of most Republicans, who, ironically still call him a Socialist.
Outsourcing?? I think it is ironic that we talk about outsourcing which started in the Carter administration from the stagflation that Carter made... that's right... a Democrat... and then it was compounded with NAFTA, something that Clinton started... that's right, another Democrat... and all this as a result of "globalization", you know the U.N. and all that, something the Democrat's again want to protect... so the Democrat created this mess and blamed companies for it... I see... Convenient isn't it? Now the "wealthiest" citizens are at fault because they do payday loans, ARMs, credit card fees... gee, the 250k+ crowd does all that? That is WHO you are targeting Robin Hood? Strange since Robin Hood rob from the government to give to the poor... strange that Corporations and Democrats created this mess and you want to rob... not them? Huh?? And you still shop in their stores? Huh... I do hate liars... I hate lying thieves even more... and that is self-evident...
No, just that we recognize that allowing the super wealthy to keep gaining advantage does not serve society in the long term.
Exactly. When you do that you eventually get your own nobility with little upward mobility in society. It actually makes capitalism less dynamic. The achievements of the Progressive Era and the New Deal really saved capitalism from itself and its worst excesses, IMO. good post.
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Originally Posted by MTAtech
I agree and am saddened that Obama has proven to be no FDR who fought against the "economic royalists." Instead, Obama accepts deals that are to the right of most Republicans, who, ironically still call him a Socialist.
In America’s 19th-century Gilded Age, we saw these socio-economic conditions arise:
The corporation became the dominant form of business organization.
Management revolutions transformed business operations with machine-like efficiency.
There was zero regulation of labor conditions or the environment.
Philosophies of “Social Darwinism” and “survival of the fittest” reigned supreme in America’s political economy.
Politicians of both parties were in the pockets of the super-wealthy.
The super-wealthy waged war on their resistant workers with armies of armed private security, police and even federal troops.
If you read Howard Zinn, the parallels to the Gilded Age and what’s happening now are striking. We’re seeing an unprecedented right-wing assault on government regulation and economic justice/direct service organizations that have traditionally held the super-rich at bay. Sponsored by the financial plantation owners on Wall Street and the Fossil-Fuel-Industrial-Complex, the goal of this right-wing assault is to roll back historic gains made by labor, poor peoples and environmental movements over the past 90 years.
The average American is just too stupid and selfish to realize what is going on.
For the most part as long as they have what they want in terms of housing, food, sex, consumer gadgets, money and entertainment they could really care less.
Basically what those in power have realized that if you give American people the right combination of religion, sex, and entertainmnet, you can get away with the whatever the hell you want politically.
Last edited by JazzyTallGuy; 07-31-2011 at 10:48 AM..
The average American is just too stupid and selfish to realize what is going on.
For the most part as long as they have what they want in terms of housing, food, sex, consumer gadgets, money and entertainment they could really care less.
Basically what those in power have realize that if you give American people the right combination of religion, sex, and entertainmnet, you can get away with the whatever the hell you want politically.
What I find to be really bizarre are their contradictions. They complain about "big government" and yet they ignore the fact that corporations are running the government via unimaginable sums of money and perks being bestowed upon our supposed representatives. The ignorant Tea Party supporters don't get that the authentic Tea Party was against exactly what now is corporate corruption as they take money out of the country and reinvest in their own bottom line at the expense of the American middle class, working class and poor. Stupidity is the disease that is killing this once great nation.
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