Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
"Facts: The Federal Reserve rebates its net earnings to the Treasury every year. Consequently, the interest the Treasury pays to the Fed is returned, so the money borrowed from the Fed has no net interest obligation for the Treasury. The government could print its own currency independent of the Fed, but there would be no effective safeguards against abuse of this power for political gain."
"Facts: The Federal Reserve banks have only a small share of the total national debt (about 7%). Therefore, only a small share of the interest on the debt goes to the Fed. Regardless, the Fed rebates that interest to the Treasury every year, so the debt held by the Fed carries no net interest obligation for the government. In addition, it is Congress, not the Federal Reserve, who is responsible for the federal budget and the national debt."
Give it up already!
You have posted those two points twice now and I agree, but you keep missing what I am saying.
Your first point says it right there, the safeguard is we must issue debt in order for the Fed to issue currency. The Fed does not make more money than what they pay themselves and a little extra, so that is a non-issue. But we pay interest to those who own our bonds.
If we issued currency directly, we would have no bonds or debt to service. But we would have "no effective safeguards against abuse of this power for political gain." Unless we created a monetary authority as spelled out in the Monetary reform act http://www.themoneymasters.com/monetary-reform-act/
As Milton Freidman said before his death. "As you know, I am entirely sympathetic with the objectives of your Monetary Reform Act...You deserve a great deal of credit for carrying through so thoroughly on your own conception…I am impressed by your persistence and attention to detail in your successive revisions..Best wishes, Milton Friedman"
You have posted those two points twice now and I agree, but you keep missing what I am saying.
Your first point says it right there, the safeguard is we must issue debt in order for the Fed to issue currency. The Fed does not make more money than what they pay themselves and a little extra, so that is a non-issue. But we pay interest to those who own our bonds.
If we issued currency directly, we would have no bonds or debt to service. But we would have "no effective safeguards against abuse of this power for political gain." Unless we created a monetary authority as spelled out in the Monetary reform act http://www.themoneymasters.com/monetary-reform-act/
As Milton Freidman said before his death. "As you know, I am entirely sympathetic with the objectives of your Monetary Reform Act...You deserve a great deal of credit for carrying through so thoroughly on your own conception…I am impressed by your persistence and attention to detail in your successive revisions..Best wishes, Milton Friedman"
I guess Friedman was "weak minded" also, right?
Paulistas are dense, dense, dense. The debt woud be issued wether the Fed existed or not. NO NEW DEBT IS SSUED BECAUSE OF THE FED. The Fed buys existing debt, this is how it get dollars into circulation.
The Treasury pays interest to the Fed because the Fed owns the debt, it bought from John Q. Public. If the Fed didn't buy it, John Q . Public would still own it and the Treasury would be out the interest. If you didn't have the Fed, you would have John Conyers and Obama making printing decisions. That would be extremely bad. Banana republic bad.
Please point out how NEW debt is issued because of Fed actions. This should be good. Please let me know how much debt was CREATED because the Fed prints money. I'll help you out. NONE!!!!!
By the way it does not say the portion I highlighted. Please cut and paste. You are making things up.
Maybe this will help you. I think you may be incapable of understanding the issue.
"Finally, the Fed can affect the money supply by conducting open market operations, which affects the federal funds rate. In open operations, the Fed buys and sells government securities in the open market. If the Fed wants to increase the money supply, it buys government bonds. This supplies the securities dealers who sell the bonds with cash, increasing the overall money supply. Conversely, if the Fed wants to decrease the money supply, it sells bonds from its account, thus taking in cash and removing money from the economic system."
As it is now, the wishes of prolifers are being respected....if they believe abortion is wrong.....no one is forcing them to have one.....yet they want to disrespect my wishes and take my choice away.
Bottom line.....a fetus is not a citizen. I am. If I decide to terminate a pregnancy, that is not the business of government, state or federal......that is MY PERSONAL business......my choice.
If Ron Paul were ever elected......my right to choose would be in jeopardy.
So guess what? I don't care about anything else he has to say. The right to control my own body trumps all else and he will never get my vote.
Paulistas are dense, dense, dense. The debt woud be issued wether the Fed existed or not. NO NEW DEBT IS SSUED BECAUSE OF THE FED. The Fed buys existing debt, this is how it get dollars into circulation.
The Treasury pays interest to the Fed because the Fed owns the debt, it bought from John Q. Public. If the Fed didn't buy it, John Q . Public would still own it and the Treasury would be out the interest. If you didn't have the Fed, you would have John Conyers and Obama making printing decisions. That would be extremely bad. Banana republic bad.
Please point out how NEW debt is issued because of Fed actions. This should be good. Please let me know how much debt was CREATED because the Fed prints money. I'll help you out. NONE!!!!!
By the way it does not say the portion I highlighted. Please cut and paste. You are making things up.
Maybe this will help you. I think you may be incapable of understanding the issue.
"Finally, the Fed can affect the money supply by conducting open market operations, which affects the federal funds rate. In open operations, the Fed buys and sells government securities in the open market. If the Fed wants to increase the money supply, it buys government bonds. This supplies the securities dealers who sell the bonds with cash, increasing the overall money supply. Conversely, if the Fed wants to decrease the money supply, it sells bonds from its account, thus taking in cash and removing money from the economic system."
Your little catch phrases are really telling of your intellect. Paul is against the solution I am talking about (debt free fiat currency) BTW.
You can read your wiki and other simpleton sources all you like, you obviously don't want to understand our system.
If we can't issue currency without debt, why did CNN do a report about several debt ceiling solutions INCLUDING issuing a debt free coin directly from the treasury?
In his book "No more National Debt" Bill Still gives chapter after chapter with detailed historical and sourced information, showing you how you are 100% wrong. He also has a chapter AGAINST Ron Paul for your enjoyment.
Your little catch phrases are really telling of your intellect. Paul is against the solution I am talking about (debt free fiat currency) BTW.
You can read your wiki and other simpleton sources all you like, you obviously don't want to understand our system.
If we can't issue currency without debt, why did CNN do a report about several debt ceiling solutions INCLUDING issuing a debt free coin directly from the treasury?
In his book "No more National Debt" Bill Still gives chapter after chapter with detailed historical and sourced information, showing you how you are 100% wrong. He also has a chapter AGAINST Ron Paul for your enjoyment.
BTW, the bolded section I copied form your post. Your red is MY words.
: smack:
We do issue currency without debt. I have repeatedly asked you what debt is created that allows the Fed to print money and you have come up with nothing. Do you know why? Because the Fed doesn't require additional debt for any of it's functions.
"Finally, the Fed can affect the money supply by conducting open market operations, which affects the federal funds rate. In open operations, the Fed buys and sells government securities in the open market. If the Fed wants to increase the money supply, it buys government bonds. This supplies the securities dealers who sell the bonds with cash, increasing the overall money supply. Conversely, if the Fed wants to decrease the money supply, it sells bonds from its account, thus taking in cash and removing money from the economic system."
Do you know what the open market means? The Fed merely buys already existing debt that is in the market. You really are clueless. Lets try this. Please explain how you think the system works, with sources, like I have provided. I know you can't because you really don't understand the system at all!
Please explain to me how you expect to expand the money supply? How do you get more (or less, contract the money supply) without the Fed?
The section you bolded does not say what you claim it does. This is what you bolded:
"no effective safeguards against abuse of this power for political gain"
This is your interpretation.
"the safeguard is we must issue debt in order for the Fed to issue currency."
Wow, I just read you links. The CNN link say zero about the Fed issuing debt, it simply says that the US government can do an end run around the Fed and mint 2 trillion dollar coins. So? The Us government can do that at any time. I pointed out, this would lead to a banana republic situation. That is why the Fed is so valuable, it takes politics out of the economics of the financial system.
Your other link says literally nothing. What a mess. You have no clue.
Last edited by shorebaby; 08-17-2011 at 08:14 PM..
Ron Paul won't bend over backwards and allow Israel and AIPAC/Jewish-Americans to control foreign policy. For that, he will never get mainstream media attention and will be brushed off.
There's a reason during the last election all the candidates ran over to AIPAC to participate in their forum.
We do issue currency without debt. I have repeatedly asked you what debt is created that allows the Fed to print money and you have come up with nothing. Do you know why? Because the Fed doesn't require additional debt for any of it's functions.
"Finally, the Fed can affect the money supply by conducting open market operations, which affects the federal funds rate. In open operations, the Fed buys and sells government securities in the open market. If the Fed wants to increase the money supply, it buys government bonds. This supplies the securities dealers who sell the bonds with cash, increasing the overall money supply. Conversely, if the Fed wants to decrease the money supply, it sells bonds from its account, thus taking in cash and removing money from the economic system."
Do you know what the open market means? The Fed merely buys already existing debt that is in the market. You really are clueless. Lets try this. Please explain how you think the system works, with sources, like I have provided. I know you can't because you really don't understand the system at all!
Please explain to me how you expect to expand the money supply? How do you get more (or less, contract the money supply) without the Fed?
The section you bolded does not say what you claim it does. This is what you bolded:
"no effective safeguards against abuse of this power for political gain"
This is your interpretation.
"the safeguard is we must issue debt in order for the Fed to issue currency."
I have given you several sources, I bet you have watched none. Why would monetary experts devote their life to something they can find on wiki if they are wrong?
If we don't need to issue debt, why do we? Why not issue debt free currency as Lincoln did, or the continental congress did, or why in 1100 AD did England issue debt free currency until the 1600s, why did Rome issue debt free scrap metal coins in 200 BC?
Why is our money supply (M3) almost equal to our national debt and has been for decades? Our money is created as debt.
I have given you several sources, I bet you have watched none. Why would monetary experts devote their life to something they can find on wiki if they are wrong?
If we don't need to issue debt, why do we? Why not issue debt free currency as Lincoln did, or the continental congress did, or why in 1100 AD did England issue debt free currency until the 1600s, why did Rome issue debt free scrap metal coins in 200 BC?
Why is our money supply (M3) almost equal to our national debt and has been for decades? Our money is created as debt.
End debt based currency and fractional reserve.
Yikes, Wiki was one of several sources I used. Were they all wrong too?
Your argument is pure nuttiness. Here is what will happen if we follow your advice. Excuse Wiki.
"The various belligerent Governments, unable, or too timid or too short-sighted to secure from loans or taxes the resources they required, have printed notes for the balance.""
I know why you rely on videos and other sources, and you have not used any of your own words to describe what you are trying to explain. You simply have no understanding what you are trying to debate.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
