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How is what you're proposing in the OP any different than "nationhood" or "nationhood" within a nation (the U.S.)?
What constitutes a "nation" in your view?
Go back and reread my OP... I said each STATE could cater to a particular "focus group".
For example.... I'm a firm believer in the Constitution, and I'm fed-up with religious zealots thinking they have a right to DENY lesbian/gays of "civil unions/marriage" or whatever you want to call it. Let the homosexual crowd have 2 States that cater to their culture. That way the other 48 states can remain with their Christian Bible marriage values. (BTW.. I'm a straight woman, just in case you are wondering)
Like I said before, the Mormons already have Utah. The Muslims are starting to put pressure on schools, employers, etc because of their Muslim rituals. Let them have a State that passes LAWS that cater to their Muslim rituals.
I was born/raised in IL (I can blame my parents for that bad choice). I'm currently seeking a more Gun friendly, Constitution friendly state.
Hispanics are putting pressure on California and other southern states to RECOGNIZE Mexico holidays. Excuse me, but.... WTH? Let the Mexicans have California or Arizona or wherever and they can pass LAWS that cater to THEIR CULTURE!
IF you understood how our Founding Fathers created the various documents to SEPARATE the Federal Gov from the State Gov's, you would realize that our current Federal System overrides the States in a manner that was NOT originally intended by our Founding Fathers.
Go back and reread my OP... I said each STATE could cater to a particular "focus group".
For example.... I'm a firm believer in the Constitution, and I'm fed-up with religious zealots thinking they have a right to DENY lesbian/gays of "civil unions/marriage" or whatever you want to call it. Let the homosexual crowd have 2 States that cater to their culture. That way the other 48 states can remain with their Christian Bible marriage values. (BTW.. I'm a straight woman, just in case you are wondering)
Like I said before, the Mormons already have Utah. The Muslims are starting to put pressure on schools, employers, etc because of their Muslim rituals. Let them have a State that passes LAWS that cater to their Muslim rituals.
I was born/raised in IL (I can blame my parents for that bad choice). I'm currently seeking a more Gun friendly, Constitution friendly state.
Hispanics are putting pressure on California and other southern states to RECOGNIZE Mexico holidays. Excuse me, but.... WTH? Let the Mexicans have California or Arizona or wherever and they can pass LAWS that cater to THEIR CULTURE!
IF you understood how our Founding Fathers created the various documents to SEPARATE the Federal Gov from the State Gov's, you would realize that our current Federal System overrides the States in a manner that was NOT originally intended by our Founding Fathers.
I've read the OP three times now and what it suggests is a version of "nationhood." Aren't nations a system in which people who have a similar culture, value system, beliefs, religion, ethnicity and live within a specific geographical region and construct their own system of governance with their own laws?
Your latest posts sounds like you don't want a multicultural society in which different interest groups (a focus group is what market researchers do before they begin an advertising campaign, or what a political operative does before they launch a political campaign--they bring in people and test their ideas on them to try to gauge what the general public thinks. In short a focus group is different from an interest group) form their own nation. I've told you that Americans have attempted this in the past and you said that was different from the intent of your OP. You haven't explained how it's different.
(BTW, so what if Mexicans want to have their own holidays. Why do you care? You can always not observe those holidays)
Your latest post further suggests that you believe the federal system was a confederated system in which there is no strong centralized government, but instead, a collection of independent states that band together for mutual defensive purposes. This was called the Articles of Confederation and it got scrapped in favor of a federal system--a strong centralized government that had the ability to aid business and infrastructure development and had the ability to tax.
I'm not sure what you mean about documents created by the Founding Fathers other than the Declaration, the Articles, and later the Constitution. I'm guessing here because your posts lack many specifics that you might be referring to the KY and VA Resolutions, which carry no force of law. Resolutions are mere resolutions like those initiated at the Seneca Falls Convention in 1848--those were mere resolutions that did nothing to change the legal structure or governing structure.
Lastly, how do you know what the Founding Fathers intended? Did you know them personally?
You know, clarification of what you mean in this thread would go a long way toward helping me to understand your position. So far, you just haven't done much to help me or others understand exactly what you mean.
What's a nation? What makes a nation a nation? I think you should think hard about this because your OP suggests nationhood or a version of it.
So 2 States decide to ALLOW gays/lesbians to get married/civil union, or whatever you want to call it. Those 2 states now allow all the same benefits to those spouses. Maybe their schools could teach history about Jane Addams (a Nobel Peace Prize winner for her Social work *Hull House* and she was a lesbian) In the meantime, the remaining 48 states can maintain their man/wife definition of traditional marriage. That suddenly makes them a "nation"? Pleeease!
There's an awful lot of people in this country that want to see guns outlawed completely! Are you familiar with the IL FOID card. It's the only State in this country with such a set-up. Let those that believe all guns should be totally outlawed, along with all of IL other UNconstitutional laws, and that would make IL a "nation"? Get real!
So 2 States decide to ALLOW gays/lesbians to get married/civil union, or whatever you want to call it. Those 2 states now allow all the same benefits to those spouses. Maybe their schools could teach history about Jane Addams (a Nobel Peace Prize winner for her Social work *Hull House* and she was a lesbian) In the meantime, the remaining 48 states can maintain their man/wife definition of traditional marriage. That suddenly makes them a "nation"? Pleeease!
There's an awful lot of people in this country that want to see guns outlawed completely! Are you familiar with the IL FOID card. It's the only State in this country with such a set-up. Let those that believe all guns should be totally outlawed, along with all of IL other UNconstitutional laws, and that would make IL a "nation"? Get real!
You are taking this wayyyyyyyyy out of context.
How do you arrive at the conclusion that the laws you mentioned are unconstitutional?
How are laws usually deemed as unconstitutional?
I still fail to see how what you outlined in the OP does not form a "nation" or a version of a "nation"?
I'm really curious as to what your view is, what is nationhood? How are nation's formed and what characteristics do they have?
I'm not asking these to bait you or to be a troll -- I really am curious as to your thought processes on why you'd make the suggestions you did in the OP.
How do you arrive at the conclusion that the laws you mentioned are unconstitutional?
How are laws usually deemed as unconstitutional?
I still fail to see how what you outlined in the OP does not form a "nation" or a version of a "nation"?
I'm really curious as to what your view is, what is nationhood? How are nation's formed and what characteristics do they have?
I'm not asking these to bait you or to be a troll -- I really am curious as to your thought processes on why you'd make the suggestions you did in the OP.
For starters, just recently the Chicago Gun Ban WAS FOUND UNCONSTITUTIONAL! Hmmmmm........ (unless I'm mistaken?) I think the D.C. ban was also confronted?
I find it interesting that IL thinks it's perfectly OK to set-up "check point road blocks" yet the Wisconsin State Supreme Court found it UNconstitutional. There are several other states that also found road block check points UNconstitutional. (but that's another debate of it's own)
So let me ask YOU... how many States have made "civil unions" legalized? I'm asking because I don't keep track of such. I lack TV. For those states that have legalized "civil unions", would you consider those states NATIONS?
CURRENTLY each State is ALLOWED to have it's own set of Laws. Does that make them a NATION? (I'm throwing it back on you)
I can sit at work, or sit at the local bar, or wherever, and can hear plenty of people that believe all guns should be outlawed. Those are the same people that freak out that their evil neighbor, or evil relative, co-worker owns a gun. GASP! So have 1 State that is gun free, and they can live in their own little paradise. No more moaning and groaning of living in fear.
I also live right across from a Methodist Church and this is smalltown USA. Nobody in this region wants "civil unions" allowed. Sure everybody is happy that IL denies that "right". Afterall, it isn't THEIR life being denied.
In my OP, I stated.... (for example) IF you chose to live in a State that does not cater to your "beliefs/focus group/whatever you want to call it" then you have no right to moan and groan and DEMAND your Politicians to change a particular Law. Muslims are really starting to use "Religious Beliefs" to squirm around our laws. That's discrimination of the Jews, Christians, and others. Have 1 State that caters to the Muslim religion. If they don't want to live in that state then don't demand other States to cater to their ways.
A lot of our Politicians and Gov policies are being stretched into 20 different directions. They can't make EVERYBODY happy, and that's a given fact. This could simplify things.
Last edited by springazure; 09-02-2011 at 10:41 AM..
I'm going to hanker a guess.... say for example, New York said they would cater to the Gay/Lesbian Group. Suddenly they pass all sorts of laws that create a very friendly environment for the Gay/Lesbians. They allow "civil unions", various spousal benefits. Fostering/adopting of children, etc. I bet they would start flocking to New York in droves! Just think of all those high school students suffering depression because they feel like an outsider. This way they know WHERE they can go, to feel fully accepted, once they become of age.
Once the gay/lesbian people start populating the region more and more, the homophobic's will start leaving in droves! I'm hankering it would be a natural process. Nothing forced! It's just that New York made it a very inviting environment for that particular focus group (or whatever you want to call it)
I really hate to think of children raised in one of your groupthink states with limited contact with people who see things differently from the way their parents do. Maybe they should have a period of visiting around the country on coming of age, sort of like the Amish do with their young people. This whole concept is just so sad.
This isn't necessarily about "surrounding myself" with like minded people. This is about STATE LAWS that various States pass. Pro-Lifers are upset because the Gov won't make Abortion illegal. Gays/Lesbians have their own battles... a State makes it legal for them to marry, and all the Christians get upset.
I'm not a religious person, I'm an Atheist. I have NO PROBLEM with Gays/Lesbians wanting to "marry", but this is a supposedly Christian population and the homosexuals have had some serious battles.
Whether you want to admit it or not, this country continues to have a serious problem with Blacks wanting to blame Whites for discrimination. They can all congregate to the States where THEY are surrounded by the same skin color. Then let's find out who they blame for their problems.
And whoever made that Stormfront comment.... I'm not a Stormfronter, skinhead, or anything like that.
I do live in IL (born and raised, but in process of moving) and have strong support for the 2nd Amendment. IL is the wrong state when it comes to gun laws.
IL does the road side check blocks. Wisconsin was going to do the same thing. Then the Wisconsin State Supreme Court deemed them UNconstitutional. Hmmmm..... so who's right? IL or WI?
Now the Muslims are starting to demand schools cater to their religious rituals. Some schools have gone so far, as to create "special classes" just for the Muslims. Isn't this discrimination of the Jews, Christians, etc?
This is about STATE LAWS. Each state "adopts" a focus group, and agrees to cater their laws, holidays, culture, rituals, etc to that particular focus group.
This is an incredibly dumb idea. As long your white whatever state is somewhere in the south far away from the rest of us, and we can build a border fence like the republicans want to build for the mexicans around this state so they are not allowed to enter the rest of the country, im fine with it.
I really hate to think of children raised in one of your groupthink states with limited contact with people who see things differently from the way their parents do. Maybe they should have a period of visiting around the country on coming of age, sort of like the Amish do with their young people. This whole concept is just so sad.
Every state to some extent is a "group think" state. The kids that live in liberal states are just as likely to vote along the same lines as their parents, as the kids in conservative states.
It seems to me that many more Northerners are leaving their liberal havens for conservative areas than the other way around. You could make a pretty good argument that liberalism is destroying the North.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth
VOLUNTEER Segregation....(what if?)
Sounds more like the Balkans on steroids circa 1995.
Moth sez, No Thonx.
I'm all for Balkanizing the United States honestly. How many of those countries in the Balkans are talking about getting back together? None. In fact, there are actually more areas trying to break apart from their host countries. Like the Serbian area of Bosnia, and Kosovo. For that matter, how many European countries are wanting to come together under a single government? Where in the world do you actually have countries that are wanting to federalize themselves together? It seems to me that everywhere I look in the world, you have places trying to break apart from each other not the other way around. From the Sudan, to Tibet, to the Kurds in Iraq/Turkey, to Bosnia, to Libya, to India, to Canada, and practically everywhere in Africa. It seems like federal governments are trying to do more and more to integrate countries and put down government opposition than anything else.
More importantly, everywhere in which people have fought for their independence never want to go back. I mean, we keep trying to pressure Puerto Rico to join as a state here, but why would they want to? The people in Puerto Rico only want to make it part of this country because they think they'll get a bunch of free stuff from the US government(since Puerto Ricans are fairly poor and would receive a lot of welfare). But such a union is actually no good for anyone, not Americans, and not Puerto Ricans. We need to just cut them loose.
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