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I have been reading about the many manufacturing jobs available in this country, that are unfilled. Why is no one interested in doing this work? They are skilled jobs, of course your hands may get dirty, but people would be working. They stated the reason there are not more manufacturing jobs is we do not have the skilled workforce to fill them. These companies are begging for help,and many said they will train people.
It is high time people got off their high horse, thinking everyone should be a lawyer or doctor and get back to the real world and earn a living. I would like to see the government cancel all unemployment benefits until there was not a single open job position of any kind. Get out there and do something, to pay your own way, when I see things available, and people still complaining about the lack of jobs I have no sympathy for any of them. People are sorry who think so many jobs are below them, but accepting a government handout is not.
They'll train people? I'm sure they have no trouble - however - lots of people are leery of going back to school to get training for a job that may not be in demand a year or two (or four) from now.
I have been reading about the many manufacturing jobs available in this country, that are unfilled. Why is no one interested in doing this work? They are skilled jobs, of course your hands may get dirty, but people would be working. They stated the reason there are not more manufacturing jobs is we do not have the skilled workforce to fill them. These companies are begging for help,and many said they will train people.
It is high time people got off their high horse, thinking everyone should be a lawyer or doctor and get back to the real world and earn a living. I would like to see the government cancel all unemployment benefits until there was not a single open job position of any kind. Get out there and do something, to pay your own way, when I see things available, and people still complaining about the lack of jobs I have no sympathy for any of them. People are sorry who think so many jobs are below them, but accepting a government handout is not.
Sounds to me like you've been reading too much propaganda.
I have personally witnessed the economic transformation that has occurred, and I can tell you that "the people" had little to do with this bait and switch con job.
Corporate America in concert with our law makers created this situation that now exists, and the effort began a long time ago. The big idea was sold to the public that it would be far better to re-educate/re-train the American workforce for more highly skilled technology jobs, and allow foreign labor to do the more menial manufacturing work. This would be an across the board benefit ... better education, higher pay for the American worker and lower cost goods too. And so the shift began ... moving large manufacturing sectors out of the country. And the boom in college education began (and education loans and University profits), with everyone jumping on the technology bandwagon, and for a while, it looked like a great deal, just as advertised. But not long after, technology advanced, particularly in high speed communications and compact high density data storage, allowing a lot of those technology jobs to be moved off shore too. And as competition grew, a new era emerged in the structure of technology employment, with contract work and outsourcing, converting a large segment of the technology workforce to that of temporary contract labor, competing with foreign labor contractors too.
I personally entered the technology business in 1981 and watched this transformation from the inside ... working for Sperry Univac which later was taken over by the Burroughs Corp to form Unisys Corp. At the time, these were the big three IBM, Burroughs, and Sperry, and this new model of transformation used the key phrase "Downsizing", as the technology shifted from Mainframe, to Mini, to Networks.
In 1986, the newly formed Unisys, formerly Sperry and Burroughs had 160,000 employees. By 1996, the workforce had been "Downsized" to about 50,000, and the stock (read: retirement funds) had gone fro $120 to about $2 per share. In essence, two very large corporations were looted and destroyed, long before the days of WorldCom and Enron, and over 100,000 technology workers kicked to the curb. I think Unisys still exists, but is just an empty shell of it's former self. And this is just one example of many.
The great flaw in this formula of creating a high technology workforce economy didn't forsee the offshoring of this work too (and the high tech product manufacturing), along with the fundamental reality that a Nation is much like a like a large company in that you have to make things and sell things to outside entities to be profitable. But we don't do that now ... we simply purchase that which is made outside, and then sell it to each other. This has contributed to the massive national debt, and the depreciation of the currency, and there is no realistic solution aside from returning to product development and manufacturing here in the USA for export. No export? No income. It's as simple as that, and I don't care if you have every person in the USA with a Masters Degree from Harvard, that formula won't change.
And it is totally unrealistic to even contemplate this All-Tech-Workforce scenario. There are too many non-skilled and lower skill jobs that need to be done, and too many workers that simply are not suited for high-tech work to expect this to be a successful structure.
But this is why we have fewer people with manufacturing skills ... not because they are stupid or lazy ... but because these skills will not be available if there is no work to develop and utilize those skills. Just as the re-training for high tech was required, a similar re-training and re-tooling will be necessary to restore the manufacturing sector. It won't happen by magic.
We are facing a major crisis which is just beginning, and is likely to get way worse if effective measures aren't taken now. With droves of new college graduates entering the workforce with fewer and fewer opportunities, we are seeing college graduates taking jobs as department store clerks ... some working in restaurants ... and these kids thought their waitressing and bartending days were over at graduation only to find that what their education got them was 60-100K worth of school loan debt, and they'll be waiting tables and pouring drinks for the next few years to pay it off.
Those who think this situation is because people are lazy and want to be on the dole are freaking delusional and clueless to the reality we are facing as a nation.
I have been reading about the many manufacturing jobs available in this country, that are unfilled. Why is no one interested in doing this work? They are skilled jobs, of course your hands may get dirty, but people would be working. They stated the reason there are not more manufacturing jobs is we do not have the skilled workforce to fill them. These companies are begging for help,and many said they will train people.
It is high time people got off their high horse, thinking everyone should be a lawyer or doctor and get back to the real world and earn a living. I would like to see the government cancel all unemployment benefits until there was not a single open job position of any kind. Get out there and do something, to pay your own way, when I see things available, and people still complaining about the lack of jobs I have no sympathy for any of them. People are sorry who think so many jobs are below them, but accepting a government handout is not.
A link or some other context would be great, otherwise it's just more rumors as in "I heard it from this guy, who heard it from this guy, who heard it from this guy, who heard it from....."
In 1986, the newly formed Unisys, formerly Sperry and Burroughs had 160,000 employees. By 1996, the workforce had been "Downsized" to about 50,000, and the stock (read: retirement funds) had gone fro $120 to about $2 per share.
And what do you know, now there are different companies like Google, Amazon, Microsoft, etc. employing thousands of tech workers where share prices are much higher than $2
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Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
But we don't do that now ... we simply purchase that which is made outside, and then sell it to each other.
Hmm I guess the 10,000 employees at the big Intel compounds up the street from me are making nothing.
And what do you know, now there are different companies like Google, Amazon, Microsoft, etc. employing thousands of tech workers where share prices are much higher than $2
Hmm I guess the 10,000 employees at the big Intel compounds up the street from me are making nothing.
You cite Google and Amazon ... and exactly what do they manufacture? I'll tell you ... NOTHING. But Intel is another story altogether, and almost unique in today's off shoring environment. And the boss at Intel will tell you exactly what I'm telling you:
So regardless of isolated and irrelevant examples and anecdotes and misperceptions, the reality is that the US has lost 20,000 manufacturing jobs PER MONTH for the past 10 years .... according to American Manufacturing Org:
We have a trade deficit of 500 Billion or almost 42 Billion per month coming into the country than is being exported, and our trade deficit with China is 27 times larger than it was in 1990. Those are the hard cold facts.
Yes, we still do make things ... and you can cite several examples ... but that doesn't change the reality of what is happening. And figures tend to paint a prettier picture than reality too .... lots of offshore manufacturing is claimed as manufactured in the USA. If you make something in the US Virgin Islands for example, that's counted as made in the USA ... but is of little help to the main landers. We also ship out massive amounts of materials to foreign manufacturing facilities, re-import it back to the states and call it manufactured here simply by handling it or contributing a step in final assembly. But was it really made here? No, it was not.
Lot's of this type of smoke and mirrors is going on ... but don't let the facts get in the way of your misconceptions.
Go ahead and believe that the economy is strong .. that the dollar is rock solid ... that anyone who is unemployed just doesn't want to work. That's what you are saying, right?
You are entitled to your opinions .... just don't try to pass them off as facts, because the two are totally unrelated.
BTW ... 50 years ago ... almost 30% of the US workforce was involved in manufacturing .... today that number is about 7% (and the 7% is questionable).
Last edited by GuyNTexas; 10-01-2011 at 11:17 AM..
You cite Google and Amazon ... and exactly what do they manufacture? I'll tell you ... NOTHING.
But they are employers of thousands and thousands of well paid tech employees. You were bemoaning the loss jobs in technology to overseas, but new jobs and new companies are always being created here that didn't exist before, so its fallacy to point to a company that is no longer relevant as an employer of Americans without acknowledging the existing others that now are.
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Go ahead and believe that the economy is strong .. that the dollar is rock solid ... that anyone who is unemployed just doesn't want to work. That's what you are saying, right?
Didn't say the economy was strong. Didn't say anyone who is unemployed just doesn't want to work. Didn't say anything about the strength of the dollar.
If you could point where in the thread I made these arguments I'd be interested to see it, otherwise sounds like you are doing some serious strawman construction.
Quote:
You are entitled to your opinions .... just don't try to pass them off as facts, because the two are totally unrelated.
This coming from the guy who became the forum laughing stock by pretending he had all the insider info a video that turned out to be a spoof from the Onion. Your privileges for telling anyone about trying to pass opinion off as fact is permanently revoked.
Quote:
BTW ... 50 years ago ... almost 30% of the US workforce was involved in manufacturing .... today that number is about 7% (and the 7% is questionable).
I know man, we've decimated the amount of workforce that had good jobs in agriculture too! How will the workforce ever survive the loss of so many jobs in farm labor with these newfangled machines doing the work of 20 men.
There's nothing to prevent others from learning this skillset. Maybe they don't get as far along in it as I do, because I was blessed with a genetic gift that most do not receive, but they could get quite a ways. Yet I don't see people lining up to become IT professionals, or nurses, or radiology technicians, or any other "in demand" profession. No, they stubbornly cling to their skill as a button pusher and expect the world to create something for them. That's not how it works.
Exactly where do you live? At my community college and many others there is a huge waitlist to get into the nursing program. Here in Indiana, at our community college system, there were 200 people who applied to the radiology technician program. 15 got in. That is an 8% acceptance rate. Hundreds apply to the nursing program here in Indiana and the pre-reqs fill up quickly because more are coming in. IT is another oversaturated field. There were 500 people who applied at my local Golden Corral.
And no, I don't think taxpayers should be paying my way for stuff. My job loss is my problem. Like I said before, I am not on any government assistance. I don't qualify because I don't have kids. I mention the above because I would like to see people wake up and realize we are in a serious jobs crisis in this country.
I have been reading about the many manufacturing jobs available in this country, that are unfilled. Why is no one interested in doing this work? They are skilled jobs, of course your hands may get dirty, but people would be working. They stated the reason there are not more manufacturing jobs is we do not have the skilled workforce to fill them. These companies are begging for help,and many said they will train people.
It is high time people got off their high horse, thinking everyone should be a lawyer or doctor and get back to the real world and earn a living. I would like to see the government cancel all unemployment benefits until there was not a single open job position of any kind. Get out there and do something, to pay your own way, when I see things available, and people still complaining about the lack of jobs I have no sympathy for any of them. People are sorry who think so many jobs are below them, but accepting a government handout is not.
There is a hell of a lot of folks who want skilled jobs, and they are not on a high horse. Gaining the skill level required for the best paying manufacturing jobs is far from easy to obtain.
I have yet to meet a person who is totally broke who thinks any job is below them. It's real easy to lump everyone who lost a job together, oldraider, but I don't think anybody is on a high horse these days, and there are very few of us who want to be doctors and lawyers. Get real, pal... how much did you want to be a doctor?
How is canceling benefits equate with filling all the few open positions offered? Do you honestly believe that people would rather be broke than avoid taking a job? Again- get real. Everyone is very aware we are living in the real world where jobs are hard to find. The unemployed are facing the consequences of the real world every hour of every day, and they're searching as best they know how to go back to a regular job.
The fact is:
Manufacturers lose money training new hires. The less a person is skilled, the more money is lost in training. Canceling unemployment does nothing to give the unemployed needed production skills; all it does is lessen their chances of ever finding good paying work.
I can introduce you to a big bunch of white-collar cubicle workers who would be delighted to put on coveralls and get their hands dirty if they knew how to turn a wrench or push a chisel or program and run a digital milling machine.
Paying for training, establishing vocational schools, helping the unemployed while they are in training will go a long way to changing the situation, but that's not all it will take. Manufacturers and companies of all kinds have to be willing to bring the jobs back from offshore and invest and commit to the U.S. again, not just the shareholder's next quarter profits.
The alternative is seeing a generation of permanently unemployed people on the dole for life. There are no free rides anywhere in our current situation- everybody will pay, in some way, sometime.
We are far from being another Bosnia. We are still the largest manufacturing nation on earth, but if we are going to keep that position, we have to change our ways of thinking and start planning for the long term, with mutual benefits for all, from the bottom to the top.
Blaming the unemployed is not only stupid, it serves no good purpose at all. Are we Americans or are we not? Do you care about your neighbor or not? Are we in this together or not?
Those skills still come from MIT, Stanford, Cal Poly, Carnegie Mellon and the like.
Really? Cal Poly?
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You cite Google and Amazon ... and exactly what do they manufacture? I'll tell you ... NOTHING. But Intel is another story altogether, and almost unique in today's off shoring environment. And the boss at Intel will tell you exactly what I'm telling you:
