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Cletus, Regarding post 46, many business owners intermingle stuff so much, its official filing may not truly represent what it is. Once saw a radio station balance sheet (friend was interested) with year over year rising interest expense of significance, w/o any debt shown. No doubt, a 2nd mortgage on the house, where the interest expense was being shown as an expense of the station, but the liability of the loan was not shown as the stations. Yes, I told my friend "Do not even think about it. I do not trust what they say their income is, and of course, that means, i do not trust their cash flow either"
You must not understand the point of incorporating or filing an LLC then.
I'm incorporated, and I'd still sell my personal assets to cover my debt if my business went under. I've made sure that I run my business in a way that minimizes that risk. You call yourself a conservative, and it's laughable. The part that really bothers me is that you have this attitude that people on welfare are worthless, but it's just fine for your friend to walk away without paying his consumer debt. Both cost us money. There are reasonable circumstances for both, and that's why both programs are in place. Being hard working is not the same as being responsible. Can your friend sell his house and get out from under it and still pay off his cars and credit cards? If your income is reduced, you have to reduce your lifestyle, or find a way to bring in more income if you want to maintain it. I think bankruptcy should be a last resort--not an easy out.
I understand it, andrea3821, and that is precisely why personal guarantees for fledging businesses are necessary. That protection the bus owner wants should NOT be granted simply due to LLC registration, if its credit worthiness does not merit going w/o said guarantee.
The ones who will honor their debts give others no grief regarding signing; the ones who are not likely to pay sound like 6 year olds when asked to sign. The former upon building credit worthiness will reach a point of not being asked to guarantee a debt.
I understand it, andrea3821, and that is precisely why personal guarantees for fledging businesses are necessary. That protection the bus owner wants should NOT be granted simply due to LLC registration, if its credit worthiness does not merit going w/o said guarantee.
The ones who will honor their debts give others no grief regarding signing; the ones who are not likely to pay sound like 6 year olds when asked to sign. The former upon building credit worthiness will reach a point of not being asked to guarantee a debt.
I've never been asked to sign one, but then people in this area have known our family for generations, know our word is better than any kind of written contract, and they know they'll get their money. I'd have no problem signing one if I was asked.
I'm not surprised given your healthy attitude towards suppliers, mb1547, that you have not been asked to sign one. Like I said, from more years of experience than I'd care to admit to, there is an inverse relationship b/w willingness to sign and actual need to sign, from the suppliers' perspective.
The good customers will sign, and the stiffs won't. Simple solution, just cut supply off to the latter cold turkey.
Do you see those who file for bankruptcy in the same manner as you see those who are on welfare?
My personal opinion is that someone who files bankruptcy is doing it as a business decision. If you can't pay your debts, you face the facts, file bankruptcy, let your creditors take some of your belongings and you start over with a clean slate (although your credit will suck for a long while as your punishment, and that forces you to learn the error of your ways, IMO). Take your licks and move on, so to say.
If you're not being responsible, you don't file but you end up dodging bill collectors while still enjoying your little toys. I think people who actually file are being the responsible ones here. Note that those who actually do file and have their bankruptcy case discharged are those who were approved by a judge based on federal law, so I don't want to hear about how people purposely run up their bills so they can have fun just to file. It's not that simple. There is really no way to "milk" this system.
On the other hand, there are a variety of reasons why one would be on welfare and I don't look down on those who are really trying and get welfare temporarily. But the people who live the high life while on the dole are not being responsible, just a the ones who refuse to pay their bills and keep their toys in the example above.
I think I can predict what everyone will say...the left leaners will say there's nothing wrong with those on welfare and thus, the bankruptcy folks are the bad ones, while the right wingers will say there is nothing wrong with filing bankruptcy and/or the two are equally bad.
no. the lender prices the risk of bankruptcy into his loans. if the lender wants to lessen his risk he can ask for a bigger deposit and do a more thorough check the borrowers financial position. if someones borrows from a friend or family at favorable rates and without collateral, that is a different story
I'm not surprised given your healthy attitude towards suppliers, mb1547, that you have not been asked to sign one. Like I said, from more years of experience than I'd care to admit to, there is an inverse relationship b/w willingness to sign and actual need to sign, from the suppliers' perspective.
The good customers will sign, and the stiffs won't. Simple solution, just cut supply off to the latter cold turkey.
I try to use local businesses as suppliers whenever I can so that I'm spreading the business and the money around the community. We grew up with these people--beside the fact that we have a sense of honor, how could we ever not pay them, and still look them in the face?
I think that's part of the problem in this country--people see their creditors as nameless, faceless entities vs. real businesses. The comment above made me laugh--if you don't pay your bills, small businesses don't take a hit--it's the credit card company. First--if you buy goods or services from a small business, and you don't pay with a credit card (or pay at all), of course the business takes a hit. Second, why is not paying a credit card any better than not paying a local business? Unless there are extraordinary circumstances beyond your control, you willingly took on the debt. You chose to spend the money without paying up front. They made you a loan, and now you're refusing to pay it. It's not complicated.
Exactly, the do unto others principle should always apply. And yes, I prefer locals also.
mb1547"I think that's part of the problem in this country--people see their creditors as nameless, faceless entities vs. real businesses."
I think it is more fundamental. When debts are honored, we're saying something about our own character, and the same is true, when we don't pay them. I love the old quote (paraphrased) that often character is as much about what we won't do, as what we will do.
Note: I'm not talking abour unforseeable, extraordinary events, but debt due to poor financial choices, lack of work ethic, overconsumption, lavish lifestyle, etc.
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