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Old 12-02-2011, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,830,565 times
Reputation: 12341

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Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
Why? Because you dont like his beliefs? You have no appreciation of freedom and how important that it apply to everyone equally. Freedom of thought and speech are precious and must be protected.
Well, let us then start at home. Start with getting rid of all laws that prevent people from expressing anything they desire in public. How do you think that will go? How will it go with you?

 
Old 12-02-2011, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
14,492 posts, read 26,603,163 times
Reputation: 8971
Quote:
Originally Posted by muleskinner View Post
As right wing as Nigeria has became of late with all of the U.S. neoCON evangelicals stirring trouble there I'd say they would love some of Duke's ideas....just not ALL of them
maybe some neo-cons should be sent to Nigeria to survive Could make a new fun reality show.
 
Old 12-02-2011, 12:23 PM
 
13,651 posts, read 20,786,272 times
Reputation: 7653
Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
Why? Because you dont like his beliefs? You have no appreciation of freedom and how important that it apply to everyone equally. Freedom of thought and speech are precious and must be protected.
Duke is free to spew his venom here in the USA. I find the man revolting and more than a bit stupid. None the less, so long as he does not advocate violence, the Bill of Rights protects him and that is fine.

In Germany, and some other places, it is illegal to deny the Holocaust, which the article states he did, and to display Swastikas, SS symbols, etc. While I personally do not think even Germany needs this kind of law, they are a free country and a democracy and thus its their choice. Duke certainly knows that and the consequences.
 
Old 12-02-2011, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Vermont
11,761 posts, read 14,661,252 times
Reputation: 18534
Obviously Germany doesn't have the constitutional protection of freedom of speech that we have here. I take a back seat to nobody in my hostility to the odious Mr. Duke. Nevertheless, what advocates for freedom of speech have said in the United States for years is that you don't need a constitutional guarantee for popular speech, only for unpopular speech.

I'm not going to go over the whole thing, but here's a blog post I wrote about some of Duke's previous legal troubles that you might be interested in.
Rational Resistance: Free David Duke!
 
Old 12-02-2011, 12:46 PM
 
46,968 posts, read 26,011,859 times
Reputation: 29458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
In Germany, and some other places, it is illegal to deny the Holocaust, which the article states he did, and to display Swastikas, SS symbols, etc. While I personally do not think even Germany needs this kind of law, they are a free country and a democracy and thus its their choice.
Germany's anti-Nazi statutes have an interesting history, actually. The German constitution wasn't intended to be come permanent - it was drafted in great haste shortly after WWII, and it covered only the French, British and US occupied zones, where it was intended to act as a stopgap until the Soviet occupation of their zone would end and a proper constitution, covering all of Germany, could be drafted. In 1948 (IIRC), the idea of Germany banning Nazism and its symbols didn't sound far-fetched at all - the idea of the Germans ruling themselves was controversial enough. And besides, it would be temporary, right?

As we know now, it took 40 years of waiting before reunification - but when it happened, it happened really, really fast.

So in 1989, former West Germany had 40 years of legislation and legal precedence based on their existing Grundgesetz, Eastern Germany was in flux and nobody really knew how things would develop. One thing was for sure: They weren't going to sit around and wait for the Soviets to change their minds, so spending months or years d.cking around with a new constitution from the ground up was not going to happen.

So pragmatism won the day and all of Germany took on West Germany's constitution. Complete with its anti-Nazi statutes.

And of course, running on a platform of changing the German constitution to ensure freedom of speech for Nazis is not exactly going to go over well with the voters, so the Germans are kinda stuck with it.

Quote:
Duke certainly knows that and the consequences.
There's little doubt in my mind he was hoping for a dog-and-pony show of a trial, which is why I applaud the Germans just deporting his sorry ass.
 
Old 12-02-2011, 01:03 PM
 
13,651 posts, read 20,786,272 times
Reputation: 7653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Germany's anti-Nazi statutes have an interesting history, actually. The German constitution wasn't intended to be come permanent - it was drafted in great haste shortly after WWII, and it covered only the French, British and US occupied zones, where it was intended to act as a stopgap until the Soviet occupation of their zone would end and a proper constitution, covering all of Germany, could be drafted. In 1948 (IIRC), the idea of Germany banning Nazism and its symbols didn't sound far-fetched at all - the idea of the Germans ruling themselves was controversial enough. And besides, it would be temporary, right?

As we know now, it took 40 years of waiting before reunification - but when it happened, it happened really, really fast.

So in 1989, former West Germany had 40 years of legislation and legal precedence based on their existing Grundgesetz, Eastern Germany was in flux and nobody really knew how things would develop. One thing was for sure: They weren't going to sit around and wait for the Soviets to change their minds, so spending months or years d.cking around with a new constitution from the ground up was not going to happen.

So pragmatism won the day and all of Germany took on West Germany's constitution. Complete with its anti-Nazi statutes.

And of course, running on a platform of changing the German constitution to ensure freedom of speech for Nazis is not exactly going to go over well with the voters, so the Germans are kinda stuck with it.

There's little doubt in my mind he was hoping for a dog-and-pony show of a trial, which is why I applaud the Germans just deporting his sorry ass.
I know all that, but none the less an excellent synopsis.
 
Old 12-02-2011, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Athens,Greece.
306 posts, read 218,972 times
Reputation: 42
To make a long story short...

Although the Nazis ( National Socialists ) combined traditional rightwing nationalism with newcoming ( at that time ) socialism,the reality was a Centrally Planned Economy ( CPE),with token private ownership...
In reality ,a "Soviet Union ,with the Nazis in the place of Soviets ( =commissioners ,in russian language...) & Hitler in place of Stalin...
 
Old 12-02-2011, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,770 posts, read 11,570,059 times
Reputation: 4262
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmccullough View Post
Obviously Germany doesn't have the constitutional protection of freedom of speech that we have here. I take a back seat to nobody in my hostility to the odious Mr. Duke. Nevertheless, what advocates for freedom of speech have said in the United States for years is that you don't need a constitutional guarantee for popular speech, only for unpopular speech.

I'm not going to go over the whole thing, but here's a blog post I wrote about some of Duke's previous legal troubles that you might be interested in.
Rational Resistance: Free David Duke!
You say he's imprisoned on suspicion of denying the Holocaust. Did he or didn't he?
 
Old 12-02-2011, 02:51 PM
 
46,968 posts, read 26,011,859 times
Reputation: 29458
Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
You say he's imprisoned on suspicion of denying the Holocaust. Did he or didn't he?
The blog refers to David Duke's arrest in Prague. They released him on the condition that he leave the country. Charges were later dropped.

The Germans, now, are running their case as a simple border control matter.
 
Old 12-02-2011, 02:54 PM
 
Location: The State Of California
10,400 posts, read 15,590,972 times
Reputation: 4283
Quote:
Originally Posted by analyze_this View Post
They should drop him off somewhere in Nigeria.
Or maybe somewhere in Harlem USA.......
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