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As your daughters are being raped, right in front of you, going from 1 daughter to the next, then to your wife....pooring gas on them and lighting it and walking away...you wuold really just stand there and say no, please dont rape my wife, or my 2 daughters......
This is a hard question to answer, isn't.
So, there are a few reason you will not answer this question:
1. Your afraid to answer because, you are afraid to tell the truth.
2. If this is God's hand's, as you said before, is God punishing your wife?
3. Is God Punishing your innocent young daughters? What have they done?
4. When you answer these questions, we can continue this conversation...
Until then nobody believes that if you walked in on your wife and daughters being raped, you would pull a chair up to the guys and say, can we talk about this? Do you really feel like raping my young daughter...and then killing her by pouring gas on my entire family (while I just watch).
Do you really believe that is what you would do?
That's the reason you will not answer the question, cause you know deep down inside you would get violent....
Obviously, Brian, you are not going to directly address most of the hard questions directed at you. Instead it will always be deflection and along the lines of "If pigs had wings they'd be eagles."
I can't blame you -- to be honest -- as your world vision and stance has about as much relation to reality as John Lennon's song "Imagine" has to the same. Hmmmm...wonder if he would be alive today if New York City gun control laws had worked...?
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Originally Posted by ahigherway
Although I didn't grow up in the 60's (I was born in 70), my personal opinion is that there are people who are doing things to improve society, and in different ways. However, the gov't doesn't often give much support to it.
I graduated and worked in the chemical dependency field as a counselor. I loved it. Many people considered the people I worked with (many coming from prison) as unworthy of life, should be locked up forever, etc. But they're wrong. People are people.
I am glad you brought that up. That is, being a "counselor." As I mentioned earlier, I am a teacher of behavior type kids and I deal with social worker type counelors all the time. And I can tell you without pausing for breath most of the type that are most likely to go to prison (and many do) think of your ilk as the biggest bunch of dupes in the world. Hell, buddy, I have heard them brag about how they can so easily fool bleeding hearts like you. All they have to do is figure out the rules of the "game" (and that is all it is), and just which approach will work best to get them sympathy and special treatment. Most of this type end up in prison sooner or later for extremely callous and violent crimes.
Point is, you have the luxury of dealing with predator types in a very controlled environment. Police and correction officers (even those who teach in dangerous alternative schools) -- much less general society -- have no such protection. Like I said earlier, it is easy to adopt a morally-superior/utopian attitude if you pay no personal price for being wrong.
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Many of us make mistakes in life. Second chances make a difference.
In some cases, yes it does. Even a third. Depends upon the crime. Not all crimes are the same though. In those extreme cases, then the difference is that innocent people would be alive today if these monster types (Ted Bundy, Kenneth McDuff, John Wayne Gacy, etc) had been executed and/or locked away for the rest of their worthless lives.
Question? Are the lives of those they murdered in pure cold blood a fair trade in your mind?
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Killing people because they killed someone else is not justice, it's revenge. (And if a person has a conscience, even if they try to justify themselves, they still have to admit that they have killed someone too.)
No, it isn't. Revenge is a personal thing. Justice is a social/legal thing. That is why when the death penalty is carried out, the exectution stems from and order of the "State" of (wherever) vs. the criminal...not an individual. And properly applied by a jury of peers.
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So what happens if a tornado blows through town and kills a person's whole family? Should he try to punish God? Or the wind? Or the meterologist?
This is just ridiculous. People build storm cellars, don't they? Preparing for the worst case scenario? What does the meteorolgist have to do with it? Much less "punishing God". Geez. What kind of sense does this make? Hell, tornadoes happen because they do when certain weather conditions come together and form them. Did God ever say we should just stand there and get blown away?
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The fact is, that we can't make life, and we have no right to take it away.
Who is "we"? But whatever, you are right we can't make life...which is somewhat of the essence of why I believe in God to begin with. Further, you are right that no one is justified in taking it away without just cause. HOWEVER, The Lord makes a clear distinction between the wanton taking of a human life as opposed to the right to defend oneself against those who would do such a thing, as well as between a moral authority of human beings to properly apply a just punishment.
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We aren't the judges of other people. Life is full of bad things, mistakes, errors, confusion..
Another really silly fantasy type sentiment. Of COURSE we have a right to "judge"...or else a criminal justice system could not be possible at all! What do you think any verdict rendered by a jury/court is if not a judgement?
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Killing people is always wrong, and it is immature to think that by killing people we have made the world "a better place."
By what ethical standard (religious or otherwise) is it "always wrong"? Sorry, but your own application is not even applicable to Word of God that you are so fond of lecturing others about. There are numerous justifications for the use of counter-force in as per self-defense, a just-war, and/or state application.
The remark about "making the world a better place" is just rambling about nothing. I could just as easily say that by not killing certain evil people the world is a worse place because they can kill innocent people. Reckon?
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Regarding the comment I made about police, I personally don't expect the police to do anything for me. But many people do. In fact, Americans in general seem to hold the police in high esteem. If they are hired to "protect and serve" (that's the slogan on the police cars in MN anyway), then either it's a joke (if your link is correct) or they really ought to protect people.
But since I believe they are there to protect only certain people, I don't even expect it.
Sorry, that won't work. You clearly spoke inititially about how an alternative to the use of deadly force would be calling the police. Therefore, by extension, it stands to reason that would be a reasonable option (calling the police) in your mind and one you would use yourself?. Tell me how I am wrong on this conclusion...?
Thus, it follows that while you believe it is morally "wrong" to use deadly force to protect yourself (or loved ones) or for anyone else to do the same, it is NOT wrong for a police officer to use the same deadly force to protect you and yours. After all, that is what you are paying them for, right?
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Peace,
brian
I pray for peace each and every night I can. I keep my "piece" handy because there are some out there who not only don't...but love to "prey" on those who do! Pun intended! Merry CHRISTmas!
Before I deal with the response below, I want to correct a misconception, that the US is more violent than the UK, that isn't accurate. The US has a higher homicide rate than the UK and always has for as long as there have been international comparisons. However overall violent crime, the UK has a higher rate than the US. in 2009 the UK had over 2000 violent crimes per 100,000 people, the US a mere 466. This was reported in both the more hysterical Mail, and the more sober Telegraph. Now while there can be some arguments about reporting methods and comparison of offenses, one thing is clear none of those arguments can explain the huge discrepancy (and at the time the Labor Government scurried on this very tactic). Incidentally it also has the highest murder rate in Europe too, and murder is very comparable, which is why it's often used as a comparison.
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Originally Posted by ahigherway
Living in Alaska, a gun might be handy against a bear, I suppose. But against people, there are other techniques. Alarms, a dog, karate-type techniques that even an elderly woman can use to dissuade a would-be attacker... There are many options available, if we want them.
Well at least someone somewhere on the other side of the argument recognizes that firearms have some purpose other than shooting people.
Look I know the techniques, and in a perfectly ideal situation they can be employed successfully, the less perfectly ideal situation you have the less chance you have of them being successful. However isn't that committing violence though? The weapon in that situation is the same, since the weapon is you, you're just using on your natural tools (fists, elbows, head, knee's, feet) rather than an artificial tool like a sword, baseball bat, or firearm. For instance a 200lb 30 year old male with years of training in a Martial Art has a very good chance of success in a violent confrontation with a 200lb 30 year old male with no training. A 90lb 75 year old woman with the same 200lb 30 year old male with no training needs extensively more training to have a good chance of success. The old Masters can stack up against anyone and have a very good chance of success, but they've been training in the same style since they were children, so say Funakoshi, in the same conflict would have had at least 70 years of Kata, Kihon, and Kumite experience.
BTW I'm not in any way disparaging Martial Arts, I personally hold several dan grades, for various styles. They provide an unlevel playing field against an attacker, but the attacker can level it by experience (street fighting IS an informal martial art, someone who's been street fighting for several years and being successful is a VERY dangerous opponent to tackle regardless of your training, their gym doesn't have contact rules, technique restrictions and no hit zones), by learning a Martial Art themselves, or by using a weapon.
Yes there are many options, why limit them? More pertinently why assume a firearm limits your options to a single one? You have every option that everyone else does whether you have a firearm or not, however you have additional options that someone without a firearm does not.
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Originally Posted by ahigherway
Calling a loaded pistol an "inanimate object" is quite the understatement, though...
Peace,
brian
How is it an understatement? What's animate about it? Do my guns hold a Ceilidh while I'm not watching? Everything about them is inanimate without some form of manual intervention. If you can provide any evidence to the contrary, then please feel free to do so.
Thanks Poppy. In fact, I've been living here in Italy for 14 years, and I actually don't miss the US much, except for family and friends. (But now I have family and friends here! )
Interestingly: here in Italy, if someone breaks into your home, and you kill them, you will go to jail.
So, indeed, there are countries where people don't generally have guns, simply because they think they're dangerous. (Italians are generally against war, and that includes the various wars that the US is in right now. They say it's because they've experienced war on their own territory and know that it's nothing worth seeing again.)
Peace,
brian
I'm puzzled then why you are concerned with the United States when you live in Italy. Which I won't get into the corruption there as I'm sure you are aware of the place you reside. We all have issues to improve upon and some that will never achieve improvement.
I'm curious though, if you are so anti-death by the hands of man why is it you are preaching religious beliefs? I am sure you are aware of how many have died and are currently under harassment from others beliefs in the Almighty Something or other. If you really wish to stop violence and murder I think you would cover a larger number of people saved by ridding this world of religion first. It simply is more responsible for violence than a hand gun owned by an American. Just a curious question since you've shown your religious issues involving gun control. I would be just as afraid of an upset religious person as one who believed in owning their own weapon, maybe even more so.
Hello? Anyone with gold teeth is obviously a loser. He looks like a future felon to me.
It seems odd that not a single pro-gun person mentioned that this guy should NOT own a gun. We are always lumped in with the right-wing, conservative, sometimes wrongly accused racist TEA Party. We never mentioned the guys race or urban cultural appearance. We always gave him the benefit of the doubt. The only thing mentioned was the obvious handling of the gun that would have gotten most of us kicked out of our local range.
Heck, I know a few guys that look like thugs on the weekend but hold down managerial jobs and deal with the public every day during the week.
So, there are a few reason you will not answer this question:
1. Your afraid to answer because, you are afraid to tell the truth.
2. If this is God's hand's, as you said before, is God punishing your wife?
3. Is God Punishing your innocent young daughters? What have they done?
4. When you answer these questions, we can continue this conversation...
Until then nobody believes that if you walked in on your wife and daughters being raped, you would pull a chair up to the guys and say, can we talk about this? Do you really feel like raping my young daughter...and then killing her by pouring gas on my entire family (while I just watch).
Do you really believe that is what you would do?
That's the reason you will not answer the question, cause you know deep down inside you would get violent....
Not answering this question Brian, is a very good indicator of what you would honestly do....
Brian, your faith is very admirable. However, I do not believe your God would want people to sit back and do nothing if threatened. After all, if Noah had sat back and waited for God to supply him the ark, instead of building it himself, we'd all be sunk. In a manner of speaking.
20yrsinBranson
No, absolutely not. God punished Israel for not been prepared for war.
This has to be one of the STUPDIST remarks I have ever read on CD....
So me owning a gun will make me WANT to shoot someone.....how ignorant is that..
So, if this is another FACT of your's....were is something to back it up.....and don't worry, won't be holding my breath for thiese fact's either...
You must be ignoring all the links that people provide you...
You have to remember, this is the mindset of all anti gunners.
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Hell, tornadoes happen because they do when certain weather conditions come together and form them. Did God ever say we should just stand there and get blown away? 
But against people, there are other techniques. Alarms, a dog, karate-type techniques that even an elderly woman can use to dissuade a would-be attacker... There are many options available, if we want them.
