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the picture in frame #10 looks like the one the history channel said was earlier version. pretty much conventional plane equipped with jet engines.
the one in frame #25 looks much more like the more modern "true jets" which were sighted by american pilots.
both did engage american planes. but the effect was not great upon the overall war effort. bombings by americans and the pending russian invasion had a serious effect on the germans ability to effectly use those planes to defend themselves. if they had used a 1000 jet planes which u say they had, effectively, it would have had a big effect on the war.
Seems in my history, we had heavy sanctions on Japan because we didn't like what they were doing. They attacked Pearl Harbor.
Tell me???
Why did we hit the shores of Normandy, to fight someone that only threatened us and never attacked us, over someone that did attack us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA
"never attacked us"? History lesson: German U-boats attacked US shipping right off the East Coast in the first months of 1942 as part of their Axis obligations, eventually sinking almost 400 US ships and costing the lives of almost 5,000 crew members.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wade52
To sink our Pacific Fleet.
This should be self-obvious.
A few days after Pearl Harbor, Hitler declared war on the USA. Prior to the open declaration, there had been an undeclared naval war in the Atlantic between the US and Germany, with 2 US destroyers being sunk by u-boats. All of this historical info is much better accessed through history books or WWII websites than on a political forum. If you're really as uninformed on this as your post would indicate, you need to do some catching up.
dane and wade are right. germany had been attacking US flagged merchant shipping, and even american warships, long before they declared war on us.
as for japan, they needed the raw materials to supply their countries military so they could achieve their goal of conquering the pacific rim. when the US cut off imports of those raw materials, crude oil, steel, etc. the japanese were incensed, and planned to take the dutch east indies and the phillipines, both actions which would have drawn the US into the war. to that end the japanese decided to attack the US fleet at pearl harbor and destroy it and force the US to sue for peace, thus keeping the US out of the war. unfortunately for japan it had the opposite effect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948
the picture in frame #10 looks like the one the history channel said was earlier version. pretty much conventional plane equipped with jet engines.
the one in frame #25 looks much more like the more modern "true jets" which were sighted by american pilots.
both did engage american planes. but the effect was not great upon the overall war effort. bombings by americans and the pending russian invasion had a serious effect on the germans ability to effectly use those planes to defend themselves. if they had used a 1000 jet planes which u say they had, effectively, it would have had a big effect on the war.
i think you are confusing the heinkel HE178, which was based on a prop driven aircraft, for the ME262 which was designed as a jet.
and while the germans did have about 1000 ME262s, they had a huge problem getting fuel to run their military as we had destroyed much of their refining capability, and the germans also lost a lot of the oil fields they had taken early in the war.
and even if germany had been able to get the needed fuel to run the jets regularly, they were having problems getting engines and replacement parts for those aircraft as well.
and even if germany had been able to get the fuel and engines, and parts needed, all we would have done is bring the P80, already entering squadron service here, online and to the european front, and the P80 would have mopped the skys of the ME262 as it was a faster and better handling aircraft with a longer range and equal firepower.
i suppose next you are going to claim that the ME163 komet was powered by a propeller also because it had a small one on the nose of the plane.
Japan tried to emulate the military imperialist/mercantilist model so successfully empployed by the Europeans and Americans, but was too late to the game.
I always laugh when I hear Americans act like they actually cared about the Japanese killing millions of Chinese in China. The thing is most Americans (and many still do if you read some comments about China) thought the Chinese were inferior. Google "Yellow Peril" if you don't believe me and also look up any threads here about China, a significant number of posters usually go around calling them inhuman savages and act like the Chinese don't care about human life.
If Americans actually cared about the Chinese why didn't they give them refuge and why didn't they loosen those anti-Chinese immigration laws? Why did it take them until 1965 to let them immigrate to America in mass numbers? Also, why were those unequal treaties still in effect until the end of WWII and why did it take until the Communist revolution to render those unequal treaties between the US and China void?
Here is the unpleasant truth about Japan and America in WWII. The Americans were worried that if the Japanese took over a large section of China that the Japanese would completely close off the Chinese market from American commerce. The Japanese closed off the entire Manchurian market from everyone including their ally, Germany so this was a pretty valid concern. Since the Japanese weren't willing to withdraw from Mainland China, the Americans started supplying the Chinese back in the late 30s and then in the months before Pearl Harbor, enacted an oil embargo. The oil embargo was the catalyst for Pearl Harbor.
In case you are wondering, America also entered the war with Germany not to save Jews from the Holocaust but because the Germans were attempting to close off mainland Europe and turn it into their sphere of influence potentially cutting off the European market from America. Yes, I am aware that the Germans declared war on America but to call America neutral when it was engaged in Lend Lease is laughable.
I'm going to guess this poster is not from America. I'm also going to state that most of those in other nations seem to know a hell of a lot more about the true reasons for all kinds of things such as war and the politics behind it all.
The fact of the matter is, what we are taught in school is so unbelievable, filled with propaganda, if taught at all, that we end up not knowing a damn thing. It is up to us to teach ourselves what the school will not.
Also, the History Channel isn't always truthful, either.
dane and wade are right. germany had been attacking US flagged merchant shipping, and even american warships, long before they declared war on us.
as for japan, they needed the raw materials to supply their countries military so they could achieve their goal of conquering the pacific rim. when the US cut off imports of those raw materials, crude oil, steel, etc. the japanese were incensed, and planned to take the dutch east indies and the phillipines, both actions which would have drawn the US into the war. to that end the japanese decided to attack the US fleet at pearl harbor and destroy it and force the US to sue for peace, thus keeping the US out of the war. unfortunately for japan it had the opposite effect.
i think you are confusing the heinkel HE178, which was based on a prop driven aircraft, for the ME262 which was designed as a jet.
and while the germans did have about 1000 ME262s, they had a huge problem getting fuel to run their military as we had destroyed much of their refining capability, and the germans also lost a lot of the oil fields they had taken early in the war.
and even if germany had been able to get the needed fuel to run the jets regularly, they were having problems getting engines and replacement parts for those aircraft as well.
and even if germany had been able to get the fuel and engines, and parts needed, all we would have done is bring the P80, already entering squadron service here, online and to the european front, and the P80 would have mopped the skys of the ME262 as it was a faster and better handling aircraft with a longer range and equal firepower.
i suppose next you are going to claim that the ME163 komet was powered by a propeller also because it had a small one on the nose of the plane.
as u have noticed im no plane expert. it could have been the he178 but it really did look like the 1942 plane ME262 that was in frame 10. i remember it bek they did say it had engaged americans and they did use the word Messerschmitt
which as a child-- i had airplane models of that prop plane.
i do like to watch the history channel and get the gist of what happened.
thanks for filling in the blanks.
the picture in frame #10 looks like the one the history channel said was earlier version. pretty much conventional plane equipped with jet engines.
the one in frame #25 looks much more like the more modern "true jets" which were sighted by american pilots.
both did engage american planes. but the effect was not great upon the overall war effort. bombings by americans and the pending russian invasion had a serious effect on the germans ability to effectly use those planes to defend themselves. if they had used a 1000 jet planes which u say they had, effectively, it would have had a big effect on the war.
At least watch the first minute of the video where it documents the first jet kill of WW2
as u have noticed im no plane expert. it could have been the he178 but it really did look like the 1942 plane ME262 that was in frame 10. i remember it bek they did say it had engaged americans and they did use the word Messerschmitt
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