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Germany's middle class enjoys high standard of living - Sacramento Living - Sacramento Food and Wine, Home, Health | Sacramento Bee (http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/23/4207824/germanys-middle-class-enjoys-high.html - broken link)
"The couple, in their early 50s, aren't retired or well off. They live in a small Tudor-style house in this middle-class town about 30 miles northwest of Frankfurt. He's a foreman at a glass factory; she works part time for a company that tracks inventories for retailers. Their combined income is a modest $40,000. Yet the Krugers have a higher standard of living than many Americans whose incomes are twice as high."
"Their secret: little debt, frugal habits and a government that is intensely focused on high production, low inflation and extensive social services. That has given them job security and good medical care as well as well-maintained roads, trains and bike paths. Both their adult children are out on their own, thanks in part to Germany's job-training system and heavy subsidies for university education. For instance, Volkmar's out-of-pocket costs for stomach surgery and 10 days in the hospital totaled just $13 a day. College tuition for their son runs about $260 a semester."
"Germany with its manufacturing base and export prowess is the U.S. of yesteryear, an economic power unlike any of its European neighbors. As the world's fourth-largest economy, it has thrived on principles that America seems gradually to have lost."
Thank Bill Clinton. The Germans do not have NAFTA, China most favored nation trade status, and employ a corporate consumption tax which rewards net exporters.
Clinton and the liberals have done more to destroy the middle class than any other force in American history, and liberals love him for it. The middle class is an impediment to the spread of socialism/communism in the US and, in the minds of the left, must be eliminated. Obama is hard at work trying to strangle the middle class right now.
Thank Bill Clinton. The Germans do not have NAFTA, China most favored nation trade status, and employ a corporate consumption tax which rewards net exporters.
Clinton and the liberals have done more to destroy the middle class than any other force in American history, and liberals love him for it. The middle class is an impediment to the spread of socialism/communism in the US and, in the minds of the left, must be eliminated. Obama is hard at work trying to strangle the middle class right now.
That's quite a story you've sold yourself. When NAFTA was a republican plan sold to dems, and America was left with a choice between NAFTA and NAFTA- who the hell did you vote for? Not Perot or you would have had your facts straight.
TRUTH= we have not been minding trade deficits since Reagan. It's practically a crime to defend our own fiscal interests according to new age republicans. I hate it.
Most Americans have much of their healthcare costs covered by their employers. I am 53 years old with a relatively serious heart condition and I pay $200 a month for health insurance with a $15 dollar payment for a doctor's visit or $30 for a specialist. I pay about $100 a month for my medications. This is in line with what much of America pays.
This might be the most ridiculous post in the history of C-D.
Seriously, you live in one hell of a bubble. Get out in the real world for a change.
Most Americans have much of their healthcare costs covered by their employers. I am 53 years old with a relatively serious heart condition and I pay $200 a month for health insurance with a $15 dollar payment for a doctor's visit or $30 for a specialist. I pay about $100 a month for my medications. This is in line with what much of America pays. The uninsured you hear about consist of illegal aliens, crackheads and, yes, a few unfortunate individuals. The fact is our corporations, which the liberals (using the American definition of liberal) so demonize, pay much of our healthcare costs.
My son's college education, after tax deductions, cost about 30K. Over a typical 40 year working career (2080 weeks) that is about $15 a week. A pretty sound investment.
You are lucky to have a good insurance plan. But even in your case, do the maths. You spend roughly $300-$350 per month on healthcare, possibly more if you get sick. So give or take, that's roughly $4,000 per year...and you are one of the fortunate ones to not be underinsured. Now, that $4,000 per year sure as hell knocks the US down in rankings, if you bear in mind that most Europeans don't pay anywhere near that amount of money. My wife for example pays around $300 per month for both of us, $20 copay, but a $500 deductible for any 'specialist' care. Even with insurance, we could easily end up spending over $1,000 out of pocket for say...a broken leg or cancer (god forbid).
I have lumbar spinal stenosis and our old insurance company refused to pay for the scan I had because they said the condition was pre-existing.
Tuition...don't even go there with me. I am constantly fighting Sallie Mae on her behalf as they are trying to get over $400 a month from us. Because of this, I couldn't even go to university even if I had the aptitude for it.
So please tell me how in the case of my wife and I, we would not be better off in Germany?
Sorry to hear about your condition anyway. I'm glad that you're able to get the treatment you need. I wish you the best of health.
Capitalism in the U.S. is extreme wealth for those at the very top, with the other 95% scrambling for the scraps. The wealthy in the U.S. have found out they can increase their wealth by moving their manufacturing base overseas. They also have convinced poor white trash that the only reason these corporations have moved overseas is because of high taxes and excessive regulations. Many corporations in effect pay NO taxes, some even get millions in tax rebates. "Regulations" in the U.S. have always been a joke, as the U.S. is the worlds worst polluter, and the EPA is toothless. "Regulations" is Republican campaign talk, a rallying cry for a clueless base.
Do you think your average German would want to follow the U.S. model?
Only if they suffer from mental illness, all the rest of them would laugh in your face if asked that question.
You know, I bring this up all the time with my fellows around town. You hear it all the time, Regulations are killing\chocking\smothering business. We need to cut regulations. Stop regulating. Cut departments. No regulations.
But--nobody actually talks about what regulations are doing this. Watch the news. Wait for a Republican to talk about regulations, and then count and list the regulations cited as killing business. You'll be pretty hard pressed.
It's obviously a Republican talking point, because that's all they do is talk about it--and not even effectively.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy
Germany's middle class is stronger because Republicans don't exist in Germany. It's as simple as that. No rocket science here.
Conservatives exist in Germany. The right-wing there is known as the Neo-Nazis.
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Originally Posted by Dragonborn
Germany works because workers from bottom to top are valued and have a say in how the company is operated. They wok fewer hours, get longer holidays and cannot just be fired for no reason, much like elsewhere in the EU. In return, workers are more motivated and happier leading to greater production for fewer hours, less sick time, fewer broken homes and less stress worrying about healthcare costs and having to take such risks to remain part of the rat race.
What's so awful about the above? Why can't Americans in particular fathom that the free market and social democracy work well together?
Job security! More and more states want to end their right-to-work laws, and it's insane. Like every other protection in this country afforded to workers, somehow, the ability of a company to hire-and-fire at will, to breach a contract without cause, is absolutely insane. Let's take this to a conservative-liberal dialoge: Republicans are systematically eliminating worker protections, actively advocating against them. Unions, right-to-work, minimum wage, benefits, PTO, maternity, etc. Want to talk about class-warfare? Republicans are committing genocide on the 99%!
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Originally Posted by Brookline_sylvia
And we're allowed to do whatever we want here? The U.S. isn't really a place where there is abundance of freedom from intrusive laws and regulations. Maybe compared to a place like Saudi Arabia or something, but the average person in the U.S. is not going to feel oppressed in Germany or France. Although, such statements usually have an orientation toward 'economic freedom' anyway. Our prison population is ridiculously high.
What's the count? We imprison 1\4 of the total prison population in the world. God forbid we try actually rehabilitating these people. No. They must be punished, because rehab doesn't work. Clearly, putting people in a hole and letting them rot away for ten years is significantly more effective and will lead to a significant reduction in recidivism than actually treating them like humans and teaching them to be functional members of society.
Most Americans have much of their healthcare costs covered by their employers. I am 53 years old with a relatively serious heart condition and I pay $200 a month for health insurance with a $15 dollar payment for a doctor's visit or $30 for a specialist. I pay about $100 a month for my medications. This is in line with what much of America pays.
No. No, it is not even close. Looking it up, the average cost (2009) is 13 375 $. The cost may be concealed by the employer, but it is passed on to the employee all the same.
Most Americans have much of their healthcare costs covered by their employers. I am 53 years old with a relatively serious heart condition and I pay $200 a month for health insurance with a $15 dollar payment for a doctor's visit or $30 for a specialist. I pay about $100 a month for my medications. This is in line with what much of America pays. The uninsured you hear about consist of illegal aliens, crackheads and, yes, a few unfortunate individuals. The fact is our corporations, which the liberals (using the American definition of liberal) so demonize, pay much of our healthcare costs.
My son's college education, after tax deductions, cost about 30K. Over a typical 40 year working career (2080 weeks) that is about $15 a week. A pretty sound investment.
You would be better off with prescription and catastrophic insurance. and just pay your doctor for the service he provides.
We were paying $1200 a month and that was with a $5000 deductible, for our family of 3. Both self employed, we pay our insurance.
Now we pay $180 a month and pay the clinic for the office visit when we need to go, and that has never been $100. We have prescription and hospitalization insurance, ONLY.
You would be better off with prescription and catastrophic insurance. and just pay your doctor for the service he provides.
We were paying $1200 a month and that was with a $5000 deductible, for our family of 3. Both self employed, we pay our insurance.
Now we pay $180 a month and pay the clinic for the office visit when we need to go, and that has never been $100. We have prescription and hospitalization insurance, ONLY.
Not when you are 53 with a medical condition that makes you uninsurable.
yes, for many Americans that is the best way to go.
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