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Old 01-24-2012, 07:40 PM
 
679 posts, read 661,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vamos View Post
LOL - yeah, the poor Germans who can't live free because they have a striving economy, never have to worry about health care, don't have to worry about financing their children's education. You really, really have to feel sorry for those poor communists/socialists/marxists/fascists/etc.

It's really a big problem when you try to make sure nobody is left in the dirt at the expense of a very select few raking in disproportionate amounts of money. MUCH better to have kids who go hungry, people dying because they can't get proper health care, and young adults be buried in debt for financing their education - so much debt that it will affect them for the rest of their lives. Yeah, that sounds great.
He was being sarcastic.
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Old 01-24-2012, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Murika
2,526 posts, read 3,007,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stateisota View Post
He was being sarcastic.
LOL - I know. I was lending support to his sarcastic statement.
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Old 01-24-2012, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Purgatory
2,615 posts, read 5,405,254 times
Reputation: 3099
Quote:
Originally Posted by vamos View Post
LOL - yeah, the poor Germans who can't live free because they have a striving economy, never have to worry about health care, don't have to worry about financing their children's education. You really, really have to feel sorry for those poor communists/socialists/marxists/fascists/etc.

It's really a big problem when you try to make sure nobody is left in the dirt at the expense of a very select few raking in disproportionate amounts of money. MUCH better to have kids who go hungry, people dying because they can't get proper health care, and young adults be buried in debt for financing their education - so much debt that it will affect them for the rest of their lives. Yeah, that sounds great.
I'm British, so if I can say positive things about Germany and Germans, there must be hope for you Americans to acknowledge that Germany is in a pretty good position right now, not that Germany is a utopia, but I would gladly live there myself.

I get a lot of flack for what people perceive as bashing America. I actually like many aspects of this country and feel that there are many areas where Britain could learn a lot from America, including getting rid of our royals and House Of Lords. I don't like the healthcare system though or the cost of going to university.

I have quite socialist views, not necessarily liberal. Having such views in a country that prides itself on individualism and one that puts more faith in corporations while fearing elected government...tough call.

Germany works because workers from bottom to top are valued and have a say in how the company is operated. They wok fewer hours, get longer holidays and cannot just be fired for no reason, much like elsewhere in the EU. In return, workers are more motivated and happier leading to greater production for fewer hours, less sick time, fewer broken homes and less stress worrying about healthcare costs and having to take such risks to remain part of the rat race.

What's so awful about the above? Why can't Americans in particular fathom that the free market and social democracy work well together?
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Old 01-24-2012, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,912,967 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
<H3 class="post-title entry-title">Median earnings higher in U.S than in Europe.
Quote:



I have previously written about the fact that the U.S has higher average income than European countries. This is not only due to the rich earning more. The U.S also has higher median income than most European countries. Here is median income in PPP adjusted dollars in the "mid-2000s" by the OECD.

I should warn that estimates of median income are much less reliable than GDP per capita.

1 Luxembourg (35.200)
2 United States (27.768)
3 Switzerland (27.228)
4 Norway (27.098)
5 Netherlands (25.876)
6 Canada (25.507)
7 Austria (22.916)
8 Denmark (22.796)
9 UK (22.306)
10 Ireland (21.402)
11 Iceland (21.317)
12 Australia (21.068)
13 Finland (20.915)
14 Korea (20.892)
15 Japan (20.879)
16 Germany (20.586)
17 Belgium (20.388)
18 Sweden (19.895)
19 France (19.047)
20 New Zealand (16.798)
21 Spain (16.456)
22 Italy (16.140)
23 Greece (15.996)
24 Portugal (11.927)
25 Czech Rep. (10.760)
26 Hungary (8.714)
27 Slovak Rep. (7.838)
28 Poland (7.326)
29 Mexico (4.350)

France, which Social Democrat Bruce Bartlett thinks is a pretty positive role model for America, has a median income 31% lower than the U.S. Do you think the median American would voluntarily reduce his or her standard of living by 31% to get "better restaurants; and greater income equality"?

Not only does the educated class do much better in the U.S compared to Europe, the median earner are also better of here.

But why let objective facts stand in the way of leftist theory?
Things have changed a bit but the median PPP of Germany still trails the USA by 30+%

If ya enjoy sitting on your ass and being lazy Europe is the place to be.
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Murika
2,526 posts, read 3,007,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonborn View Post
What's so awful about the above? Why can't Americans in particular fathom that the free market and social democracy work well together?
I don't know, either and it baffles my mind as well. I think Germany's Soziale Marktwirtschaft is a wonderful model that combines the best aspects of a free economy with a those of a secure social network.

The system is far from perfect, but it has certainly shown itself to be rather stable and fair to all members of society (at least within a realistic scope).

Somehow, a certain segment of Americans seem to believe that corporations should have absolutely free reign to do what they want and that the common man should have no rights other than those voluntarily granted by a corporation. In essence, they appear to feel okay to sacrifice the "lower" classes in order to maximize economic output.

To me, this is a short-sighted view - but there are plenty in this nation who think that less regulation will somehow lead to benefits of the little man. It is as though history never happened.
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:00 PM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,073,601 times
Reputation: 10270
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01Snake View Post
Nothing like comparing the US with a country that has 231 million fewer people. I'm sure we would be doing quite well if we could ship off the 30-40% of our population that can't carry their own weight.
Imagine an America with NO freeloaders?
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Purgatory
2,615 posts, read 5,405,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Things have changed a bit but the median PPP of Germany still trails the USA by 30+%

If ya enjoy sitting on your ass and being lazy Europe is the place to be.
Income disparity in the US skewers that my friend. Plus, get sick over here and it's a whole new ball game.

Europeans are not lazy. Many of us just work to live, not live to work.
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Purgatory
2,615 posts, read 5,405,254 times
Reputation: 3099
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
Imagine an America with NO freeloaders?
Freeloaders? Working poor? You'll ship 'em off then whine that to have no one to work lower paid jobs.

You must really love your country to want to ship off millions of people who you define as freeloaders.
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:11 PM
 
47,010 posts, read 26,062,966 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirdik View Post
So who's paying for all that free stuff, the German rich?
And the German middle class, certainly. In German society, it's not considered unfair to ask those with the broadest shoulders to carry the heaviest burdens.
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Flyover Country
26,211 posts, read 19,551,296 times
Reputation: 21679
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonborn View Post
What's so awful about the above? Why can't Americans in particular fathom that the free market and social democracy work well together?
Nothing is awful about the above, unless you are an end user of the American corporate media, which is consolidated into the hands of 6 corporations and who continually preach the ethics of capitalism while condemning socialism.

You never, ever see anything in the media about socialism or other governments like Germany unless it is negative, there is a news blackout about countries like Germany and its fair and equitable treatment of its citizens.

Americans are literally trained, like Pavlov's dog, to slobber/retch/shriek/howl at the mere mention of the word socialism. Predatory capitalism is the American way and is approved by God himself.
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