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Originally Posted by Dutchman01
You couldn't get to marx's concept of no govenrment until you first went thru the dictatorship of the prolitariat. No socialist or communist society has yet to achieve that.
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Correct. Like free market, Marxism hasn't really existed. They are both purist ideologies that fail to pass the tests of reality. They've been nothing more than convenient tools for power and money hungry politicians, with unwavering support from simpletons.
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In regards to hitler, he did hate marx. It didn't keep him from setting up a powerful central government with massive powers tho. In effect he ended up with the same type of government as lenin created.
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It was the need for a more powerful central government that brought about US Constitution to replace Articles of Confederation. That doesn't make the ideas devised by the founders "Marxist". It was a call for sanity. Or, as James Madison said: "If men were angels, there would be no need for government".
The fact is, working to have a government that works for the people is not "Marxist". Hating government as an an institution to work for the populace is actually against the very principles that went into the foundation of this country. What you fail to realize is that "strong government" is not a right or left issue, it is a control issue. The left might want it to push its ideologies, just as the right wants it to push its agenda. Iran has a strong "central government", but only an idiot would call it "Marxist" or "Left winger".
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As far as I'm concerned national socialism is just another form of socialism. In it's day it was billed as "the third way." It was supposed to be a compromise. Some compromise.
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Its not. Your idea is confined to a word, rather than an understanding of what socialism versus national socialism entails. Nationalism was deeply engraved in "National Socialism". And guess who were the greatest political "inconvenience" to Nazis: Social Democrats and Communists. They were political enemies to Nazis. Do you think social democrats and communists were opposed to aspects of socialism?
Where Nazi idea emphasized was in areas of a "common ground" for the people: One language, one religion, one race... in other words, the idea of "one" being supreme was key. Socialism doesn't dwell in demolition of trade unions, in fact promotes it. Isn't that understanding leads you all to call people supportive of trade unions "socialists"? Nazis weren't into that. They abolished unions, the right to strike and collective bargaining was outlawed. If those aspects are of "socialists", every conservative in the USA today, opposed to unions and collective bargaining rights is a... socialist!
And don't forget, the fascist to the south of Germany (Mussolini) was a hero to Churchill (a conservative's idea of greatness)... for having suppressed "nasty unions" by force in 1926. The world is way too complex to work on a word and the way it appears to be.
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