Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I normally do not post on the political forum because it seemingly always devolves into discussions more about personalities or prejudices than it does about substance.
Occasionally, however, someone writes a truly lucid assessment of the current putrid political landscape--and the link below is one of those moments:
While I often disagree with many of Kunstler's writings and I often find his political leanings to be too much aligned with "coastal" thinking that is out of sync with what is happening in the middle of the United States, both politically and geographically, I think that he captures the essence of the polarized failure that both our politics and society has reached.
Politically, I happen to be a "Teddy Roosevelt Republican" who, at once, is both a strident conservationist and a staunch fiscal conservative, and who also has a strong dislike of both large government AND oligopolistic/monopolistic corporations. Unfortunately, there is really no candidate for President (or the Senate or Congress, for that matter) that holds that combination of political vision for this country. The current crop of political candidates consists of a President who embraces both big government and big business--the worst of both evils, and a rag-tag group of Republicans (and I consider them an insult to the kind of Republican ideals that I was raised to believe in) who either embrace big business without reservation and/or think that the US should be a theocracy where somehow the equal worship of Jesus and the Almighty Dollar can exist in blissful harmony. Thus, I fully agree with Kunstler's last couple of sentences from the above blog entry:
Quote:
If neither party can frame an agenda consistent with that reality, then we'll have to get there without them, probably after a very rough period when the pretending still lingers in the air like a bad odor and no reality-based consensus is able to form, no agreement about what we should do. That's the period when a lot of things fall apart and people get hurt. These are the choices we're making right now.
Nice to see you on the Politics forum. There are so few rational posters around here, it's a pleasure to read something intelligent for a change. I am old enough to remember the Republican party before it started its long decline. I even voted for Republican candidates back in the day, something I'd never do now because a vote for the Republicans is both a vote for theocracy and a vote for the rights of corporations over the rights of the American people.
I am deeply disappointed with the Dems and Obama, as well. Sometimes it seems that the US is headed on a downhill course that it may be too late to stop.
The response of RCCB is all too typical of the mindset on this forum. I'm afraid you are wasting your time here throwing pearls before swine. If you would like a link to an excellent forum where people from all sides of the political spectrum engage in more reasonable debate (most of the time), pm me and I'll send you the link.
We're actually pretty close politically, and there are rational people here--they're just few and far between. My take is that the problems go deeper than the current crop of candidates, because both parties have deep flaws. We need to pass a constitutional amendment to get special interests out of elections (easier said than done). If corporations can't buy elections and lobbyists can't buy elected officials, we eliminate a majority of the problems holding us back--policy decisions will be made based on what's best for the country vs. who has the biggest checkbook to fund campaigns. . I think it also would help get rid of the crop of crazies in the R base now--the candidates they're running are being supported by small but deep pockets, particularly since the Citizens United decision. If the unrestricted campaign money goes away, those that want a theocracy won't have the broad popular support to raise the money to mount much of a campaign on their own--right now Santorum is running with only one major backer. I think it all goes back to big money being the problem on almost every level.
For the record, I don't think being blindly pro corporate is a very strong pro business development position. I'm a "main street," bring the jobs home type of republican.
I normally do not post on the political forum because it seemingly always devolves into discussions more about personalities or prejudices than it does about substance.
Occasionally, however, someone writes a truly lucid assessment of the current putrid political landscape--and the link below is one of those moments:
While I often disagree with many of Kunstler's writings and I often find his political leanings to be too much aligned with "coastal" thinking that is out of sync with what is happening in the middle of the United States, both politically and geographically, I think that he captures the essence of the polarized failure that both our politics and society has reached.
Politically, I happen to be a "Teddy Roosevelt Republican" who, at once, is both a strident conservationist and a staunch fiscal conservative, and who also has a strong dislike of both large government AND oligopolistic/monopolistic corporations. Unfortunately, there is really no candidate for President (or the Senate or Congress, for that matter) that holds that combination of political vision for this country. The current crop of political candidates consists of a President who embraces both big government and big business--the worst of both evils, and a rag-tag group of Republicans (and I consider them an insult to the kind of Republican ideals that I was raised to believe in) who either embrace big business without reservation and/or think that the US should be a theocracy where somehow the equal worship of Jesus and the Almighty Dollar can exist in blissful harmony. Thus, I fully agree with Kunstler's last couple of sentences from the above blog entry:
Some guy on the internet gives you your opinion and you're posting it here why exactly? I read that twice and can't even figure out what you're saying here. What's your thesis? What is the vacuum of leadership you're talking about?
I normally do not post on the political forum because it seemingly always devolves into discussions more about personalities or prejudices than it does about substance.
Occasionally, however, someone writes a truly lucid assessment of the current putrid political landscape--and the link below is one of those moments:
While I often disagree with many of Kunstler's writings and I often find his political leanings to be too much aligned with "coastal" thinking that is out of sync with what is happening in the middle of the United States, both politically and geographically, I think that he captures the essence of the polarized failure that both our politics and society has reached.
Politically, I happen to be a "Teddy Roosevelt Republican" who, at once, is both a strident conservationist and a staunch fiscal conservative, and who also has a strong dislike of both large government AND oligopolistic/monopolistic corporations. Unfortunately, there is really no candidate for President (or the Senate or Congress, for that matter) that holds that combination of political vision for this country. The current crop of political candidates consists of a President who embraces both big government and big business--the worst of both evils, and a rag-tag group of Republicans (and I consider them an insult to the kind of Republican ideals that I was raised to believe in) who either embrace big business without reservation and/or think that the US should be a theocracy where somehow the equal worship of Jesus and the Almighty Dollar can exist in blissful harmony. Thus, I fully agree with Kunstler's last couple of sentences from the above blog entry:
Excuse me??? You are a Teddy Roosevelt Republican who has a strong dislike of large government? A small government Teddy Roosevelt Republican is an oxymoron.
Here's your Teddy Roosevelt's dislike of large government:
The man who wrongly holds that every human right is secondary to his profit must now give way to the advocate of human welfare, who rightly maintains that every man holds his property subject to the general right of the community to regulate its use to whatever degree the public welfare may require it.
We're actually pretty close politically, and there are rational people here--they're just few and far between. My take is that the problems go deeper than the current crop of candidates, because both parties have deep flaws. We need to pass a constitutional amendment to get special interests out of elections (easier said than done). If corporations can't buy elections and lobbyists can't buy elected officials, we eliminate a majority of the problems holding us back--policy decisions will be made based on what's best for the country vs. who has the biggest checkbook to fund campaigns. . I think it also would help get rid of the crop of crazies in the R base now--the candidates they're running are being supported by small but deep pockets, particularly since the Citizens United decision. If the unrestricted campaign money goes away, those that want a theocracy won't have the broad popular support to raise the money to mount much of a campaign on their own--right now Santorum is running with only one major backer. I think it all goes back to big money being the problem on almost every level.
For the record, I don't think being blindly pro corporate is a very strong pro business development position. I'm a "main street," bring the jobs home type of republican.
The NRA, the VFW, American Legion, Chambers of Commerce, the Cattlemen's Association, various farm groups...they're all "special interest groups."
Where do you draw the line? How, and who, determines which special interest group is cut off from access to their elected officials?
No matter which party, someone's bound to get their panties in a twist when someone points out real life to them. Far too many people today play the partisan pundit game, which accomplishes nothing.
This quote is obvious, and quite extraordinary coming from him.
Quote:
Won't some level-headed adult like the governors of New Jersey and Indiana step up and volunteer?
Excuse me??? You are a Teddy Roosevelt Republican who has a strong dislike of large government? A small government Teddy Roosevelt Republican is an oxymoron.
Here's your Teddy Roosevelt's dislike of large government:
The man who wrongly holds that every human right is secondary to his profit must now give way to the advocate of human welfare, who rightly maintains that every man holds his property subject to the general right of the community to regulate its use to whatever degree the public welfare may require it.
That's what we like to call nowadays socialism
Maybe you should read some of TR's speeches and writings, so that you can understand what he stood for. Some examples, particularly salient to our current lack of ethical political. business, and labor leadership that permeates the whole country:
Quote:
"This country has nothing to fear from the crooked man who fails. We put him in jail. It is the crooked man who succeeds who is a threat to this country."
Quote:
"There is not in all America a more dangerous trait than the deification of mere smartness unaccompanied by any sense of moral responsibility."
Quote:
A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues.
Quote:
Character, in the long run, is the decisive factor in the life of an individual and of nations alike.
Quote:
Freedom from effort in the present merely means that there has been effort stored up in the past.
Quote:
Our aim is not to do away with corporations; on the contrary, these big aggregations are an inevitable development of modern industrialism, and the effort to destroy them would be futile unless accomplished in ways that would work the utmost mischief to the entire body politic. We can do nothing of good in the way of regulating and supervising these corporations until we fix clearly in our minds that we are not attacking the corporations, but endeavoring to do away with any evil in them. We are not hostile to them; we are merely determined that they shall be so handled as to subserve the public good. We draw the line against misconduct, not against wealth.
Maybe the most appropriate quote of all for our times today:
Quote:
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
I absolutely agree that there is a leadership vacuum in this nation. There's also an Intellect Vacuum, a Free Thought Vacuum, and a Personal Responsibility Vacuum. When someone like Barack Obama (and others) can come along and coax the masses with sky high rhetoric.....with promises of grandeur.....with Government Will Save You™ proclamations......and be successful at it (as he apparently is)......then we as a country are doomed.
There is no Oblivious To The Obvious Vaccum, though. Plenty of Americans are willfully ignorant of the national plight.
Conservatives get it. Liberals, not so much. In fact, it is the Left-leaners of society who are willfully turning a blind eye to the fact that we as a nation are circling the drain.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
