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The decline of America, at the behest of our refusal to place a premimum on Personal Responsibility, is even steeper than we ever thought it could be in the United States of America. After 10 years of payments, federal student loans would be absorbed by taxpayers.
I can't even wrap my head around this. What should be a complete outrage is complete numbness. How in the hell did we get here?
Then wrap your head around the fact that millions of those students don't have a snowball's chance in hell of paying their debt. In other words, those with money handed out way too many loans to people under a false paradigm - i.e., that students could take on ever-increasing debt to pay for ever-increasing tuition costs, which would allow those students to them get high-paying jobs down the road from which to pay back their debt. Only problem is that you have to make the investment far in advance, and now it turns out that those jobs no longer exist in the quantities that they used to. So how exactly do you want people to boot-strap their way out of this?
It can't happen because, as I said, the entire mechanism under which the debt was arranged in the first place was based on a false paradigm.
The Decline Of America: Student Loan Forgiveness Act Of 2012 Introduced
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Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC
Of course you don't. You see nothing wrong with multiple abortions...so why should we believe you have a problem with absolving students of their legal responsiblity to pay their debts? Personal Responsibility is not your theme at all. In fact, your posts have shown that you despise PR.
America is doomed because of the lack of principle embraced by people that share your ideals.
I agree with everything you say about this. All Americans who work for a living and pay taxes should be outraged. If this law passes, we should all quit our jobs and go back to school, take out huge loans and party the rest of our lives..
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"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." Benjamin Franklin
Then wrap your head around the fact that millions of those students don't have a snowball's chance in hell of paying their debt. In other words, those with money handed out way too many loans to people under a false paradigm - i.e., that students could take on ever-increasing debt to pay for ever-increasing tuition costs, which would allow those students to them get high-paying jobs down the road from which to pay back their debt. Only problem is that you have to make the investment far in advance, and now it turns out that those jobs no longer exist in the quantities that they used to. So how exactly do you want people to boot-strap their way out of this?
It can't happen because, as I said, the entire mechanism under which the debt was arranged in the first place was based on a false paradigm.
Why not? I paid off $80K in student loans in 6 years exactly. While I realize that not everyone can be expected to be as efficient or successful, they can be expected to prioritize their lives to pay for something they willfully and eagerly signed on the dotted line for. Even if that means forgoing getting married...buying a house....having children. They should do whatever it takes to honor their obligations. Right?
The "no high paying jobs" argument doesn't hold water in my view. It may be a struggle in the near term, but it won't be a lifetime struggle. Economies are cyclical. These people are expected to weather these cycles just like the rest of us in society have.
Being born 25 years before the Great Recession is not a golden ticket to absolution of personal or fiscal responsibility.
Why not? I paid off $80K in student loans in 6 years exactly. While I realize that not everyone can be expected to be as efficient or successful, they can be expected to prioritize their lives to pay for something they willfully and eagerly signed on the dotted line for. Even if that means forgoing getting married...buying a house....having children. They should do whatever it takes to honor their obligations. Right?
The "no high paying jobs" argument doesn't hold water in my view. It may be a struggle in the near term, but it won't be a lifetime struggle. Economies are cyclical. These people are expected to weather these cycles just like the rest of us in society have.
Being born 25 years before the Great Recession is not a golden ticket to absolution of personal or fiscal responsibility.
Why is it that you constantly absent the lending institutions from their own willful and eager participation in extending loans to those who, in most cases, have little to no credit history and offer no plan for paying back those loans other than the flawed assumption that a degree always ends in a well-paying job?
In making a loan, any person and any institution takes a risk and the risk is that they will not recoup their money. The institutions making these loans know the risk and play the game anyway.
What bothers me to no end is the attitude of many in this thread. It seems all anyone is willing to do is either forgive the loans in full or tell people "you made your bed now go lay in it." Disgusting, both sides. And both are really good examples of why this country is in the sorry shape its in.
I don't think it's that black and white. To those who accept(ed) full responsibility for their loans and paid them off, it probably came at a price. That is, the delayment of gratification on quite a number of fronts. Due to the debt burden, some may put off certain "rights of passage," i.e., starting a family, buying a house, traveling, etc. They will never, ever get those years of their life back. A conclusion could be made that it would, in fact, be irresponsible of them to "live life to the fullest/buy now, pay later" if it would be a detriment to themselves or others around them.
At the school that I attended, you were required to live on campus during your freshman year and have a meal plan, whether you wanted to or not. Quite a number of students have to pay for this with, you guessed it, their student loans. I assume the idea is to integrate the student into academic life on campus, where the student will gain the necessary connections and networking skills. However, not everyone goes to college in the same way or for the same reasons. Some go later in life, some are transfer students, and some go part-time over many years while juggling other obligations. Others turn into a professional student, or they might not even finish. I don't think it's morally appropriate to then require Individual A, who took a different path toward his/her education, to then be asked to pay for Individual B's room and board, food, extracurricular activities, or if Individual B decided to party more than study or used part of the loan for something other than education. To be sure, these citizens already pay taxes which go toward funding education and the gravy train needs to stop somewhere along the line.
Another thing worth mentioning is that before much of this student-loan crises came to a head, particularly before the downturn in the economy, there was a ton of arrogance and elitism going on about education in regards to someone's worth, status, and job prospects. There was talk about the downsides, but, in my opinion, it was largely drowned out by the cacophony of "you have to go to college to get anywhere in life." So now, some of the very same people who thought all of this was a sure thing want Joe Trailer to bail them out of their situation. After the fact, of course.
Personally speaking, and barring major illness or whathaveyou, my pride still counts for something. I don't want to be bailed out. Yes, hardship situations can and do happen and I would not make light of that. For the most part, I take this as a discussion about able-bodied, intelligent, adult college students. You have to be a legal adult in order to sign a contract. What's truly disgusting is how we have been telling our citizenry for X amount of decades(?) that everyone gets a trophy. As it turns out, in real life not everyone gets a trophy after all. This discussion should not be one of loan forgiveness but "loan prevention," and the admission, fee, and policy structures of these colleges that unnecessarily balloon tuition rates.
Why is it that you constantly absent the lending institutions from their own willful and eager participation in extending loans to those who, in most cases, have little to no credit history and offer no plan for paying back those loans other than the flawed assumption that a degree always ends in a well-paying job?
In making a loan, any person and any institution takes a risk and the risk is that they will not recoup their money. The institutions making these loans know the risk and play the game anyway.
Wal-mart sells goods. Just because they sell goods, doesn't mean I should go and empty my bank account at Wal-mart.
Banks extend loans to those who apply. Does that mean I should go take out as many loans as the bank will give me? No it doesn't.
It's called career planning. While not every little detail of life can be figured during this process, it is incumbent on the individual to perform their own cost/benefit analysis and see to it that the plans they have make sense, and should even include a contingency plan in order to absorb the unexpected as best as possible. If this means going to a cheaper school, so be it. That's life.
Life is not fair sometimes. We all know that. The government should not be in the business in ensuring that it's fair by subsidizing poor decisions.
What's hard to understand about that? I don't get it.
The "no high paying jobs" argument doesn't hold water in my view. It may be a struggle in the near term, but it won't be a lifetime struggle. Economies are cyclical. These people are expected to weather these cycles just like the rest of us in society have.
And in the mean time until those jobs come back, they pay their loans...from what, exactly? Prostitution? Many are broke and can't find the jobs that will support the payments.
I agree that people should practice responsibility and honor their obligations to the extent possible, but man... you're just a bit in denial about the times, aren't you? According to you, all those millions of jobs didn't go down the toilet, health care is affordable and not rising like crazy, tuition costs haven't risen through the roof, everything is just fine... and the 40 million to go without health insurance and all of the millions of unemployed, it's all their fault. They're just lazy people who could easily bootstrap themselves to a great place in life if they only cared to try!
Well, for some it is their fault. But for many it's not. You can't squeeze blood out of a turnip. The lenders will discover that if the money is not there, then the money is not there. The same way that all of those "no money down" loans for ridiculously overpriced houses were obviously unsustainable for both the lender and the borrower, you'll see it now with student loans. We've been handing out and taking on way too much debt of all kinds, and both sides willfully engaged in this orgy. It takes two to tango. Now we're in the deleveraging phase, and it will be painful and take years to get back to normal.
I agree with everything you say about this. All Americans who work for a living and pay taxes should be outraged. If this law passes, we should all quit our jobs and go back to school, take out huge loans and party the rest of our lives..
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"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." Benjamin Franklin
Yeah! Toga..Toga... Toga.... Where can I sign up?
I think personal responsibility in this country has gone by the wayside.
Instead, let's say that autism is the new excuse. If you borrow the money, you pay it back. This is really simple. No excuses.
What the heck is a geographic information sysytem? Does it have something to do with GPS?
Why was she taking private loans to begin with? My loans are direct loans through the US Department of Education. I think the repayment options are pretty dang flexible if one's loans are through the U.S. Department of Education.
There is income sensitive repayment, forebearance, deferments. I can maybe see starting here as a way to relieve some of the burden for students, but total repayment is too much for the taxpayer.
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The Decline Of America: Student Loan Forgiveness Act Of 2012 Introduced
