With oil at $112 a barrel, why is the Volt so idiotic? (Minnesota, solution)

[Sporin]

I give up, believe whatever you want.

[Fiddlehead]

I think we need to break trail here. The Volt sounds like it has plenty of problems, but it is the first step in an essential direction. We dithered and lost out to the Prius, which is the gold standard for hybrids. It would be good to be heading in the right direction rather than clinging to our gas guzzlers and war mongering. My 2 cents.

[Leisesturm]

Originally Posted by dude1984

I agree about diesel. You can have decent power, amazing torque, and really good mpg.

For the American driver, the best high mpg car is the Prius or a diesel.

Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed

And unlike a diesel, the Prius's battery pack loses charging capacity every year and mileage, subsequently, decreases more and more, far faster than a diesel car that doesn't rely on batteries. Hell, my laptop is proof of that, my battery lost 50% of its design capacity in just a couple of years

I don't know... maybe it's me, but is diesel not a fractionate of crude oil? Like gasoline? So... does higher priced crude not result in higher priced diesel as well as higher priced gasoline?? Using the logic that diesels use less... diesel, and are therefore worth keeping around... one could argue that smaller or otherwise more fuel efficient gasoline cars use less... gasoline and are therefore worth keeping around. That was the thinking ~1975 and therefore nothing was done about alternative energy automobiles, so here we are nearly 50 years later still arguing the point.

Homebuilt electric cars of which there are tens of thousands, use lead acid or NiMh (nickel metal hydride) batteries. Lithium batteries are way too expensive for the average person to consider in the quantity necessary to power an electric automobile. A Tesla costs as much as it does largely because it uses hundreds of essentially laptop (lithium) batteries ganged together. That is the worst case cost scenario: early adopter price premium coupled with individual unit pricing. As I understand it, Chevron which owns the patent on NiMh batteries forbids making large capacity batteries with that technology. Why? Because NiMh battery technology is mature and it would be the go to power source for electric vehicles in large capacity unit size. When, and if, Lithium battery technology matures to the point where it can compete with gasoline in absorbing and storing electrical energy an oil company is going to buy out the company that does it and modify their patents and slap a cap on the maximum size of the batteries that can be created using it thus keeping the price of battery technolgy prohibitively high.

The argument that electric cars are not ready for prime time is specious. They are, but the public is being used as foils in a media war between the entrenched oil industry interests and visionary car companies or alternative energy advocates. A Prius is going to get 50 mpg if you drive it like an old lady. In any case... 50mpg? There are European diesels that get 65 mpg. You probably have to drive them like a little old lady as well but a 15 mpg difference is huge. The gas engine in a Prius is bigger and has more horsepower than the gas engine in my old 94 Honda Civic Wagon. Its usual passenger configuration is one middle aged caucasian male. A Prius is essentially a gas powered car with a really large starter motor. A Nissan Leaf or a Chevy Volt are much closer to the Holy Grail. The Nissan Leaf, however, is a scaled down Prius with the gas motor ripped out. WAY too heavy and feature laden to be powered with 21st Century electric battery technology.

When, and if, an electric car platform weighs 100(!!) pounds, instead of 3,000 pounds in single passenger configuration it will be possible to power it with the kind of horsepower numbers obtainable from 21st Century batteries. Instead of starting with an automobile chassis you have to start with a modified bicycle chassis. Liberal use of exotic composites and aluminum. Those who know, know that the present path of modifying automobile technology to run on batteries is doomed to failure and that is why they allow it. Tesla is done for. Are they even still in the game? Last I heard their CEO, Chief Engineer and another high ranking official were all killed in some kind of accident. Seems like a loss, but from where I sit, it really wasn't/isn't. Theirs was not the way forward.

H

[rbohm]

Originally Posted by Darkatt

2. Put a small motorcycle style engine with a generator on it in the car, running off of propane or CNG, that can charge the battery and operate the car. This will reduce costs, by removing the big heavy engine, transmission and differential, and make the car even more efficient, while reducing dependency on oil, by using natural gas or propane, WHICHEVER is available.

rather than a small motorcycle engine, a better alternative, which is generally more powerful, lighter, and more fuel efficient, and is multi-fuel capable would be micro turbines.

Originally Posted by Darkatt

Really? Do you KNOW what it takes to produce biofuel? Do you know WHAT is used to produce biofuel? Do you know how much edible food would be taken out of consumption cycle for livestock and humans, to produce fuel, and what it would do to prices for vegetables, meats and feed for livestock?

to make biodiesel, you start with USED cooking oil that has already been discarded from restaurants. to that you add a mixture of methanol and lye after filtering the USED cooking oil. the nice thing is that the byproduct of creating biodiesel is glycerine which is used to make soap. there is NO edible food taken out of the loop that isnt already being removed to make the cooking oils in the first place.

but if you are so concerned about it, how about you start a movement to make growing hemp legal so we can make biofuels from that.

[hawkeye2009]

Originally Posted by monkeywrenching

if the USA gets rid of all the coal plants in the USA, i sure as heck hope the goverment and all the econuts are prepared for all the brownouts and blackouts.

Of course, they are not prepared. Liberals do not seem to understand that their "clean" electric energy comes from coal. It is difficult to discuss issues with a group that is so misinformed and irrational that such basic issues are lost upon them. It appears as though, with their opposition to coal, nuclear, and oil and that the liberal appears to want to burn dung and wood for fuel. Of course, solar is extremely "dirty" with all the heavy metal contaminants and wind, much to the chagrin of the liberal, kills birds and causes noise pollution and seizures.

What is a liberal to do? Burn dung, deforest the continent, and burn wood, thus contribute to "global warming". It must be confusing to be a liberal. I, for one, will drive my 3-4 mpg '69 Superbee while they worry about the world for me. Life is good.

[whogo]

You can buy a Yaris for 14K, how can you ever economically justify buying a Volt?

[monkeywrenching]

Originally Posted by Little-Acorn

Ever try to start one in Minnesota in January?

actually I live in Wisconsin and work in Minnesota, and I dont even bother plugging in my duramax diesel in the winter anymore. my PU starts just fine in the morning, and no garage at home either.

[Swampmonster]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

Why do folks guffaw at all the efforts to make fuel efficient cars, like electrics, when it is clear that oil is increasingly volatile?

I don't think much is`REALLY thrown at these electric cars as far as money for engineering,quality parts etc by the manufacturers..IMHO they do like all Corps,just enough to get the Govt $$$ and that's it....if they made a good,safe reliable product and didn't gouge the hell out of folks for the vehicle....I still wouldn't buy one

[natalie469]

Originally Posted by janelle144

With oil at $112 a barrel, why is the Volt so idiotic?

This is exactly what the president and his environmentalists what you to start thinking. Congrats, you have been indoctrinated.

Indoctrinated to what

[Leisesturm]

Originally Posted by whogo

You can buy a Yaris for 14K, how can you ever economically justify buying a Volt?

You are correct, of course. So what's with all the Escalade's with just one dummy sitting behind the wheel tooling around?

H