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I loved your story! And I'm glad you had a great trip and made some new friends.
I will point out that if a white person related a similar story, and made assumptions based on the color of their skin, and the way they look, they would be labeled racist.
I'm not a big fan of National Parks. Many are over-crowded, over-regulated and over-commercialized and developed. I'm not much of a fan of camping with a neighbor 50 feet away, or "hiking" on a paved trail.
National Forest and BLM lands are a different story. Very little makes me happier than to load up the dirt bike or ATV with a load of camping equipment and disappear into the woods for a few days. It's a great feeling of peace and a chance to see country only a tiny portion of our population ever sees. Absolutely fantastic way to explore some new country.
Bringing new people, especially young people into these activities, or any involving our wild public lands, is so important to the future of both these lands, and sports I enjoy very much. This includes black people. I'm a member of 3 ATV clubs and a dirt bike club, with a combined total of upwards of 1000 members. I don't know that there is a single black member. Granted...North Idaho doesn't have a large black popularion, but the percentage isn't that low. I've worked to recruit some at bike shows, but so far with no success. If you have any ideas on how to interest black people in these sports, let me know.
BTW...get the word out, we don't carry rope on the ATVs. And the club shirts aren't made from bed sheets. Yes, even in Idaho. So, don't worry about being the only black person/people out in the backcountry, 50 miles from pavement, with a bunch of white folk. We're pretty harmless and want to enjoy the day in the woods.
Oh, as far as the concerns about large carnivores, the concern is pretty minimal. People claim that they are more afraid of you than you of them. Just in case one didn't get the memo, a large caliber handgun greatly increases your odds! Besides, that's why you bring a slow person along. You don't have to outrun the large carnivore, just the slowest person in your group.
Hey...wait a minute. I'm a fat, old, white guy....I wonder if that's why I get invited along. I think they want bear fodder...bastages.
My "stereotypically redneck" comment was not intended as an affront; and I am certainly not a racist. I apologize if I offended anyone. However, right or wrong, as human beings, we all have preconceived notions based on anecdotal accounts and/or personal experiences. I have definitely been wrong on more than one occasion, which is why I try very hard not to judge others by appearance. But, if you put yourself in our position, I think you will understand why we reacted as we did. We were waaaay up in the mountains in West Virginia, a black woman with a white man, it was getting dark, we were in a secluded area, and then out of nowhere, 3 white men looking like Jed Clampett pull up in a truck. Be honest, would you get that warm and fuzzy feeling?
I'm not sure how you can attract more black members. Have you tried putting flyers on their mailboxes, or posting notices of events in areas with large black populations? How about involving high school students who may have black friends? Perhaps more would join if they felt they were actually welcome. Maybe they feel intimidated by an all-white club. I don't know. Can you honestly say you wouldn't have reservations about joining an all-black club? Or, it could be they simply have no interest.
I have always been an extrovert, so I have never had a problem meeting people or trying something new, within reason. I also love the outdoors, particularly trees and flowers. I find them fascinating, and often wonder how many people years ago sat under the same tree, or enjoyed the same view. I especially love seeing all of the beautiful colors on trees when they change in the fall, which is one of the reasons I enjoy living on the East Coast. During my childhood, I would often venture into the woods with friends and spend hours marveling at the different trees, birds, and butterflies. But, that's just me.
However, I would not have had those experiences had my grandfather not lived in the country, had my parents not enrolled me in summer camp, and had I not lived most of my childhood in the suburbs. It's hard for children living in the inner city to develop an appreciation for the outdoors if they aren't exposed.
I know there are plenty of nice white people, who relate to others simply as human beings. I have had the pleasure of meeting and befriending quite a few. I also realize there are many who have nothing but hatred in their hearts for all black people. Nothing will change that. I try to focus on the good and ignore the bad. But, sometimes that's impossible.
Bottom line: We are all different. Some black people enjoy the outdoors, while others don't. The same is true for any race. I don't consider this a problem.
From Thursday through Sunday of this week I will be backpacking through most of Pennsylvania on the Appalachian Trail. It's almost a 100% guarantee that I won't encounter one black person on the trail, or in the various state parks that I pass through as I head north.
I agree with lifelongMOgal.....I believe it's more about lifestyles and interests than it is about race. However, i'm not surprised that our government has determined that it's a lopsided racial issue worth wasting taxpayer dollars for.
Just be careful if you hear a blind kid playing the banjo.
I am very sad to see that this thread has turned into a racial war with name calling and it obviously shows that we are so not united as a nation
I don't claim to know what the "black experience" is like nor I feel like it would be helpful to judge black people on some of the opinions they have shared with us but I cannot relate!
I respect deserdetroiter for explaining how a lot of Blacks feel, I am sure he does not speak for every Black person out there, but as much as I want to respect and understand his point of view, I simply can't!
I remember first time I went to White Sands National Monument in New Mexico, that place really touched me and I almost cried, I felt this incredible connection to the land and felt so proud to live in the USA.
I am sure, the Navajo as well as other native peoples feel the same connection to the land as I felt at White Sands. I really would love to understand why most black people do not feel the same!
BTW, I am not White, I have been going on road trips since I was very young, I never thought that something as trivial and as American as visiting a National Park could be divided along racial lines, absolutely irrational!
I am trying to understand the "Black point of view" but I just can't!
Honestly, I don't understand your point of view. Why would looking at the earth make one cry?? I don't understand that at all. For me, America is not all about it's physical beauty, even though I do admit that we have a wondrous and beautiful landscape here. What gets me emotional is the beauty of our people and how kind we can be to each other and how we like to help each other out and be there for our countrymen and citizens of the earth. Americans are the best part of our country in my mind. I am a black American, Americans are great to me and knowing "my people" (what I call all Americans) is a great honor to me. I am a more social being and love meeting new people not only here but around the world, even though I admit, I have a great affinity for our country's citizens. Why is that so hard to understand and why did you jump to conclusions believing that just because someone doesn't share your point of view that something must be wrong with them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat
What the hell are you talking about? What the hell does culture have to do with not being interested wanting to know the country you live in? I would call it a very "ignorant" culture!
I have been to many National Parks and most of the time you can see some of the most amazing landscapes, animals and incredible beauty from the comfort of your air conditioned SUV.
Where do people get this idea that if they go to a NP, they will be in the middle of some wilderness like going on an African Safari?
I went to Badlands NP a couple weeks ago and just the experience of seeing buffalo in the wild is priceless! I also ended up seeing mountain goats for the first time and had an encounter with a herd of pronghorn antilopes, all these moments at least to me, were PRICELESS!
Everytime I go to a National Park, I feel like I am driving through a movie set because these places are so surreal and so incredibly beautiful!
I don't want to see a buffalo or antilopes or goats. I really dislike goats, one tried to eat my clothes before and to this day I don't even like petting zoos when I take my kids to the zoo.
Also, you keep mentioning only NPs. Are those the only parks that you want us blacks to experience? Like I said, I have gone to many a state park and city metro parks and even to one NP here in my metro area (that was way too crowded for my taste). I have driven through parts of the Great Smoky Mountains and the Appalachains. I have hiked in parks in the DR and other carribbean islands as well. I would like to even climb Mt. Kilamanjaro one day. I have hiked Stone Mountain here in GA too. I have also hiked in the Oseola National Forrest in FL. Why are you so concerned about the NPs but not the national forests, which I have heard are much less traveled and pristine, somewhere where you can really get a nature experience?
I don't get the euphoria from nature that you experience though. I do these things mostly for exercise and to get out of the house, they hold no special meaning for me. I am an amateur history buff and love to learn about the different people of our country's history, including those who advocated for nature like John Muir and Teddy Roosevelt. Thoreau is one of my favorite authors as well. FDR's Civilian Conservation Corps and the people who worked to create all those hiking trails that you love so much are fascinating to me, them personally, not so much the actual location
Not everyone is interested in the same thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat
What kind of ignorant, stupid culture would put no emphasis on expanding horizons, widening your worldview and most importantly, getting to know the surroundings and country we live in?
Usually, when I go to a National Park, I see people from Japan, China and Europe, people who traveled thousands of miles to see places like the Grand Canyon, Yellowstone, or Denali NP.
I think any culture or person who has an ounce of intelligence would be naturally inclined to want to investigate and better know the country and surroundings they live in. No?
What do you guys do? Stay in the same ethnic ghetto for your entire lives and never venture out because you do not feel comfortable around a non-ethnic environment? I can't believe some of the stuff I am reading here. Pathetic!
Here you have destroyed your image as someone who may just want to encourage more black people to visit NPs. Insulting people is not a way to encourage.
I have a very high IQ and am probably more intelligent than you are, just because I don't have an enduring desire to visit NPs does not make me unintelligent. And FWIW I am going to the Grand Canyon next year and am pretty excited about it. Some friends of mine (two black women) just visited and they had a great time and gave me some tips about tour buses that will take us there. We are going to Vegas for a family reunion primarily but I thought it would be great to visit the GC since I've never been (most of the people in my family have been though). I'm not hiking though, just going to take pictures and walk on that new clear/glass bridge they built.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake
I'm not a big fan of National Parks. Many are over-crowded, over-regulated and over-commercialized and developed. I'm not much of a fan of camping with a neighbor 50 feet away, or "hiking" on a paved trail.
National Forest and BLM lands are a different story. Very little makes me happier than to load up the dirt bike or ATV with a load of camping equipment and disappear into the woods for a few days. It's a great feeling of peace and a chance to see country only a tiny portion of our population ever sees. Absolutely fantastic way to explore some new country.
Bringing new people, especially young people into these activities, or any involving our wild public lands, is so important to the future of both these lands, and sports I enjoy very much. This includes black people. I'm a member of 3 ATV clubs and a dirt bike club, with a combined total of upwards of 1000 members. I don't know that there is a single black member. Granted...North Idaho doesn't have a large black popularion, but the percentage isn't that low. I've worked to recruit some at bike shows, but so far with no success. If you have any ideas on how to interest black people in these sports, let me know.
BTW...get the word out, we don't carry rope on the ATVs. And the club shirts aren't made from bed sheets. Yes, even in Idaho. So, don't worry about being the only black person/people out in the backcountry, 50 miles from pavement, with a bunch of white folk. We're pretty harmless and want to enjoy the day in the woods.
Oh, as far as the concerns about large carnivores, the concern is pretty minimal. People claim that they are more afraid of you than you of them. Just in case one didn't get the memo, a large caliber handgun greatly increases your odds! Besides, that's why you bring a slow person along. You don't have to outrun the large carnivore, just the slowest person in your group.
Hey...wait a minute. I'm a fat, old, white guy....I wonder if that's why I get invited along. I think they want bear fodder...bastages.
Wanted to say that I agree that the national forests are great places and I felt that the one I visited versus the NP I visited was much more of a "natural" setting than the NP where they had a bunch of tour guides and vehicles and just was more of a constructed sort of place than the NF which was just the wilderness.
Also wanted to say that I knew a LOT of black guys in high school who were into dirt biking and there are a bunch of kids in my neighborhood who ride around on ATVs to my distaste (they do it in the street and have no safety gear and I am always afraid they will get hurt). I would suggest looking at high schools to get interested black recruits. Most young men I know like to go fast on motorized vehicles. My son is 10 and is fascinated with dirt bikes and ATVs but I am too chicken to let him ride on one and told him he couldn't until he was a legal adult.
Residinghere2007," Honestly, I don't understand your point of view. Why would looking at the earth make one cry?? I don't understand that at all. For me, America is not all about it's physical beauty, even though I do admit that we have a wondrous and beautiful landscape here. What gets me emotional is the beauty of our people and how kind we can be to each other and how we like to help each other out and be there for our countrymen and citizens of the earth. Americans are the best part of our country in my mind".
People are what ruin our precious landscapes and our natural resources. People dont care about what mother earth has to offer and the fewer people that recognize that will further continue to destroy it.
My "stereotypically redneck" comment was not intended as an affront; and I am certainly not a racist. I apologize if I offended anyone. However, right or wrong, as human beings, we all have preconceived notions based on anecdotal accounts and/or personal experiences. I have definitely been wrong on more than one occasion, which is why I try very hard not to judge others by appearance. But, if you put yourself in our position, I think you will understand why we reacted as we did. We were waaaay up in the mountains in West Virginia, a black woman with a white man, it was getting dark, we were in a secluded area, and then out of nowhere, 3 white men looking like Jed Clampett pull up in a truck. Be honest, would you get that warm and fuzzy feeling?
I'm not sure how you can attract more black members. Have you tried putting flyers on their mailboxes, or posting notices of events in areas with large black populations? How about involving high school students who may have black friends? Perhaps more would join if they felt they were actually welcome. Maybe they feel intimidated by an all-white club. I don't know. Can you honestly say you wouldn't have reservations about joining an all-black club? Or, it could be they simply have no interest.
I have always been an extrovert, so I have never had a problem meeting people or trying something new, within reason. I also love the outdoors, particularly trees and flowers. I find them fascinating, and often wonder how many people years ago sat under the same tree, or enjoyed the same view. I especially love seeing all of the beautiful colors on trees when they change in the fall, which is one of the reasons I enjoy living on the East Coast. During my childhood, I would often venture into the woods with friends and spend hours marveling at the different trees, birds, and butterflies. But, that's just me.
However, I would not have had those experiences had my grandfather not lived in the country, had my parents not enrolled me in summer camp, and had I not lived most of my childhood in the suburbs. It's hard for children living in the inner city to develop an appreciation for the outdoors if they aren't exposed.
I know there are plenty of nice white people, who relate to others simply as human beings. I have had the pleasure of meeting and befriending quite a few. I also realize there are many who have nothing but hatred in their hearts for all black people. Nothing will change that. I try to focus on the good and ignore the bad. But, sometimes that's impossible.
Bottom line: We are all different. Some black people enjoy the outdoors, while others don't. The same is true for any race. I don't consider this a problem.
BTW, watch out for the bears.
I know where you were coming from and given the context it was obvious that no offense was intended. I should have put a couple of these after my comment . It was intended more in humor than anything else. My comment was in response to one of the threads where a white (or Asian? I forget) couple locked their car doors when approached by a large number of young black males....and were blamed for offending them by doing so, and thereby somehow justifying an assault. I don't understand that logic. We make too big a deal about race. Every racial group is composed of individuals, some good, some bad.
Our clubs do make a regular effort to recruit new members. We don't focus on any one racial group...but blacks are under-represented. Granted, the areas population is only something like 3% black, but still, that would be about 30 members out of the ~1000 between the clubs. Getting out in the woods on a quad or bike doesn't appeal to everyone, but many have never even tried. We do want to grow the sport. I will admit, given the reputation a small group of ignorant azzhats have given this area...I can understand why 1-2 black people might hesitate to go 50 miles in the backcountry with a group of whites. But we want to change that perception.
The difficult part is someone already has to be interested in these sports and the outdoors to have any interest in joining a club. And without some interest and introduction to the sport, not many people are going to drop the coin on either a quad or bike. We can try to come up with loaner machines to introduce people to the sport...but not everyone wants to let a stranger use their expensive machine, nor deal with the liability issues if someone gets hurt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007
Also wanted to say that I knew a LOT of black guys in high school who were into dirt biking and there are a bunch of kids in my neighborhood who ride around on ATVs to my distaste (they do it in the street and have no safety gear and I am always afraid they will get hurt). I would suggest looking at high schools to get interested black recruits. Most young men I know like to go fast on motorized vehicles. My son is 10 and is fascinated with dirt bikes and ATVs but I am too chicken to let him ride on one and told him he couldn't until he was a legal adult.
I'm encouraged to see that kind of interest in younger people and particularly blacks. I'm about as far from a liberal do-gooder-lets-do-something-for-the-pooor-minorities type as you can get. Our sport is very family focused, and getting new members from all races is important. I want to involve minorities not for some PC reason, but to get more people of any race with a common interest together.
We do a lot of "family" rides, with some riders (actual operators) under 10. These are slow, controlled rides with lots of supervision, and with safety gear, particularly helmets, strongly encouraged. We also have lots of parents who bring young kids along as passengers. I've had the pleasure of meeting a number of great teens in this sport as well. Most are very mature for their age and don't have the attitude issues that..well, I had at that age. If your son is interested, getting him involved with a responsible club environment at a young age might be safer than waiting for the testerone filled teen years kick in.
Last edited by Toyman at Jewel Lake; 05-04-2012 at 09:14 AM..
Residinghere2007," Honestly, I don't understand your point of view. Why would looking at the earth make one cry?? I don't understand that at all. For me, America is not all about it's physical beauty, even though I do admit that we have a wondrous and beautiful landscape here. What gets me emotional is the beauty of our people and how kind we can be to each other and how we like to help each other out and be there for our countrymen and citizens of the earth. Americans are the best part of our country in my mind".
People are what ruin our precious landscapes and our natural resources. People dont care about what mother earth has to offer and the fewer people that recognize that will further continue to destroy it.
I agree with you on the bold. Actually one of the reasons why I don't like camping and such is because I feel that is the home of animals and I don't want to intrude on their territory.
Just because someone doesn't want to go out and look at nature doesn't mean that they want it destroyed or will sit back and let it get destroyed.
Even though I don't cry looking at landscapes, I value our country's natural resources. I like having clean water especially and I don't support encroaching on all wild spaces to make subdivisions.
I certainly know what mother earth offers, it just doesn't make me cry to look at it and it is not something I make a priority to see, yet I don't support its destruction.
You're like the 5th poster that has posted this to me. I still haven't seen the clip. I take it you didn't read the linked article pretty sobering stuff about your community.
LOL @ This dude using "your community" and yet he attended an HBCU and lives in PG County.
It all points to you trying to fit in, and being rejected.
No. Just tired of dealing with baboons. I gave up after you went on and on and then said "My Bad. I did not see that." Come on. I do not have all day for you to catch up on rudimentry reading skills.
Only in your twisted reality did you air me out. Still using ghetto slang I see.
Never change. Not racist. Just the truth about your twisted culture. Take pride in it. The joke of America.
I do doubt you have a job with all the free time on your hands. Probably typing behind bars doing a stretch.
You're still here? You must be a glutton for punishment.
Look...i'm FINISHED with you. I already owned you.
Meh...black folks don't care about certain outdoor activities for the most part. Camping? Nope. Hunting? Mildly so...rural blacks hunt all the time. Fishing? We love fishing just as much as any white person if not more. Hiking? Depends. But we're generally not the type to bother with areas that we have no business being in....like where dangerous animals are for example. LOL We already find normal life to be adventurous enough without a Grizzly Bear or Wild Boar on our trail.
So it does have a little to do with race, but race isn't the whole story. We just don't care to rough it in general. Again, there are exceptions, but i'm pretty much right for the most part.
Besides, as long as black folks aren't complaining about it, there is no sense in making a big issue of it. From anecdotal experience, i can say that most black folks don't think we're missing anything. Personally, rather than spend a boatload of money to go to Yellowstone on vacation, i'd spend that same money going to Cozumel, Puerto Vallarta, San Francisco, or Santa Barbara. Anything to get next to a great piece of fish, a steak, and a glass of wine. They don't have that stuff at national parks.
Sure they do, you just have to catch one and the other two items you just bring with you!!
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And I'm glad you had a great trip and made some new friends.
as a nation
I don't understand that logic. We make too big a deal about race. Every racial group is composed of individuals, some good, some bad.
We already find normal life to be adventurous enough without a Grizzly Bear or Wild Boar on our trail.
