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As someone who has been battling obesity for years...I am disheartened by the lack of knowledge that exists in our society about obesity. So many people in CD think they understand the obesity epidemic when they actually have little medical or psychological understanding of the nature of the condition. It simply amazes me why people can have such strong opinions on topics they know nothing about. I guess it just has something to do with the stigma attached to being obese.
First of all, obesity is a much more complicated issue than just laziness. I really gained weight in college, even though I lacked a car and walked EVERYWHERE, no exactly a couch potato. My problem was that I was heavily medicated with three medications that increased my appetite substantially. Saying do not eat that much was easier said than done. Like with the holocaust victims that were starved for months...when the allies liberated the concentration camps, many ate so much their stomachs exploded and they died. If the desire to eat is that strong, you are going to eat. It's easy to say don't eat, but when you are hungry and have a strong desire to eat...you are going to eat. Good to those people on CD that never had that problem...but it is completely different when faced with a problem yourself.
Secondly, medical research is showing that when people lose substantial amounts of weight, the hormones controlling appetite, satisfaction and metabolism are greatly affected. Five years ago, I lost 120 pounds through diet and exercise (1.5 hours of vigorous cardio daily). I did everything right with diet and exercise. However, it only lasted just over a year before all the weight and more came back. I simply could not control my binge eating (which will be placed in the next DSM when published). Note: I did go for therapy for this condition. So I saw a bariatric doctor (top MD in NYC), not necessarily for surgery, but for medical advice. He told me one phrase that put the problem into a clear perspective...."You have 100 people that try to lose 100 pounds...5 will succeed and 1 will keep it off." So I was in the top 5% of dieters but not in the top 1$ of all dieters, so in the end the diet failed. He told me that the best medically proven method of substantial weight lose is weight loss surgery. Much success is made with that method due to the effects on the hormones that control metabolism and appetite. Basically, without surgery I was told that my battle with weight will be an "uphill, life-long battle."
So what do we do about obesity? I do not know. I was not given a clear answer for myself by the top bariatric doctor. Right now, I am continuing the battle. I may have turned a corner out of a blessing in disguise. You see, I had another medical condition called hydrocephalus...a build-up of the spinal fluid in my brain. I was having vision problems so I found out that the fluid that flows from the brain to spine was building up in the brain. It was treated successfully by installing a shunt in my head (a tube that allowed for the fluid to flow out of the brain down to my stomach. Where does the shunt end...along the stomach wall...the surgeon was not surprised that my appetite went down. So since that operation last year, I lost 50 pounds. This time I am doing it much more gradually...hopefully, this lose will be be sustainable. But I do not know what will happen. Will my appetite return? Will my metabolism slow down? Will I develop another problem with Binge Eating or another psychological disorder? Brain chemistry is also clearly a factor, this has also been medically proven. Can that change? I do not know, I am not a bariatric doctor, I do not know the future.
What I am trying to say is there is no easy answer for the obesity epidemic. One more thing the doctor told me...the problem is our bodies are designed to put on 10 pounds a year to store up for times of famine. It goes back to when we were cavemen. However, we evolved and became too successful. There is no more famine! And so there is yet no simple solution to this problem. People on CD can blame it one our culture, laziness, lack of will power...however, such people are NOT a part of the solution. If anything they may make it worse for such individuals by their harsh judgements. They is the only thing I can say for certainty at this point.
I would fully support a "fat tax" on high fructose, chips, candy, and fast food. Also, I would support "anti-fat" campaigns. I feel that they are needed to bring discomfort and to provoke thought to the obese to want to recreate themselves.
A fat tax is a good idea however I think we should tax overweight people extra for their medical costs instead of taxing everyone by increasing the cost of jink food.
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Originally Posted by JeepGirl118
I notice obese people when out. It makes it quite difficult to understand and empathize with obesity when I see an obese individual sitting in a restaurant with a plate full of Biscuits and Gravy,
I just cant understand why someone will continue doing that to their body when they see themselves everyday. Do these people have no respect for themselves? I do find it funny that fat people demand that we show them respect when they dont even respect themselves.
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Originally Posted by negativenancy
Speaking about obese adults:
It is socially acceptable to ridicule smokers and drug addicts when they are blowing smoke in your once clean air or leaving behind drug needles that poke people.
My main concern is the excuses they are using and teaching to overweight children. If you are going to be fat atleast own up to the blame.
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Originally Posted by negativenancy
I would understand your posts if you genuinely were trying to help overweight people,
Its called tough love, telling someone that "they are fine as they are" will not motivate them to lose the weight, would you tell an drug addict that they are "fine as they are"?[/quote]
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Originally Posted by negativenancy
but from reading your comments, you are doing no such thing. You simply want 'fat people' to quit lying and quit making their kids fat.
And this is a bad thing because?.......
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Originally Posted by faeryedark
In past eras you didn't have processed foods and foods with antibiotics and hormones added...that has something to do with it. In past eras, we didn't work in office buildings but did hard manual labor.
Ever talk to the parent of an anorexic or buliemic?
You are right about the processed foods however you can still gain un-processed natural foods these days and there is nothing stooping fat people from eating these foods except for their will power. In regards to people whom work in office environments I work in an office for 40 hours a week and i still find time to stay fit and muscular. My mum who was a single mum also worked in an office and had3 children and she did not become fat.
In regards to anorexic people that is not the topic of this subject but if you want to go there I will answer it with a question; If the parents of an anorexic child allowed their child to live that lifestyle while telling that child that they are "fine as they are" and that "its not their fault that they are anorexic " would you call those parents good repents?
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Originally Posted by purehuman
telling them it's their fault, it's not ok(rediculous), and anyone can lose weight is just plain hurtful....not helpful, and shows no compassion at all
And telling them that they are fine as they are and that they can never lose the weight will help them how? It may give them an ego boost but it will reduce their motivation to even try and this will reduce their quality of life.
At the end of the day your health is more important than your ego
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12
Obesity should be viewed as a mental health issue. And these folks need treatment to get better. No one wants to be obese. There are psychological issues that cause over eating.
There are also sychological issues that cause drug use. Will you tell those drug addicts that they are fine as they are and that its not their fault that they take drugs?
People on CD can blame it one our culture, laziness, lack of will power...however, such people are NOT a part of the solution. If anything they may make it worse for such individuals by their harsh judgements. They is the only thing I can say for certainty at this point.
[Let's put this on the table in case anyone here is fuzzy on what obesity is. Obesity is a BMI of 30+. Morbidly Obese is a BMI of 40+. Do not confuse it with being "overweight."]
lentzr, you said that the people on CD are not a part of the solution. The people on CD are real people behind a computer that you drive by in passing on the expressway, people that you shop with at the store, and sit amongst at a concert. We are the ones who are upset with the crisis as a whole and are willing to be proactive, if given a chance, to help stop the bleeding. The people on CD are not BOTS. We are the public.
Do you not agree that the obesity issue is way out of control in the United States? We ARE the 2nd fattest nation [as of last year, Kuwait passed us and topped the list - there are 199 countries, by the way, if I recall correctly] and we [the USA] share the exact same issues as other thinner, just-as-privileged countries as the US - i.e. eating disorders, medical issues, accidents, medications, computers/internet encouraging a more sedentary lifestyle, hormones/pesticides/chemicals in food, same exposure to the media and celebrities, demanding jobs, harsh public judgments, psychiatric disorders, fast food, high carb foods, blah, blah, etc.
Can you explain why you feel this is? Why do you feel America is suffering more with obesity than the rest of the countries that are just as privileged as we are with the same [or almost the same] human day-to-day issues?
Even when using BMI, the definition of obesity can still be a bit fuzzy. For example, I am 32 years old, about 67 inches tall and weigh 172 as of this morning. I have a BMI of 27. Thing is, I am in better physical condition than most I meet, and would put myself in the top 25% of those in my age category fitness wise. I live an active lifestyle, exercise regularly, do a MUCH better job of watching what I eat than I did 10 years ago, and as of the last time I got my cholesterol checked, was perfectly fine. Yet according to the BMI I am "overweight." Anyone who took a look at me would argue otherwise, as I am actually lean.
I asked my wife's doctor about this a few months ago when my wife was still pregnant. He acknowledged that BMI gets less accurate for people who are not very tall. I see this all the time because I am currently serving as a Captain in the Marine Corps. I know dozens of Marines who are short and stalky, powerfully built, and in fine physical condition. Yet if you take their BMI they would register as overweight or even obese.
So using BMI as the measuring tool should be done with caution.
What amazes (and disappoints) me though is how willing so many are to openly discriminate against obese people. In this era of acceptance (POTUS of African American descent, homosexuals gaining more and more mainstream recognition) we are targeting a certain group because of their physical characteristics. I agree profoundly that for many of them the choices they make play a role, but one cannot discount genetics, individual metabolism, etc... My wife's doctors and I discussed this as well, and by his estimation, anyone who discounts the role of science as it relates to obesity is over-simplifying the issue. I would be willing to bet that most obese people have a greater claim to being "born this way" than do homosexuals.
Now I also believe that personal choices play a huge role as well. But for many who are obese, it is not as simple of making a personal choice. It is an entire LIFESTYLE CHANGE. Let that sink in. Very few of us in this country actually have to go through that, and therefore do not know what it is like. Before championing new discriminations targeting the obese, try to put yourself in their shoes and actually understand what they are going through. Anything short of that is a failure to comprehend the complexity of this issue.
Now I also believe that personal choices play a huge role as well. But for many who are obese, it is not as simple of making a personal choice. It is an entire LIFESTYLE CHANGE. Let that sink in. Very few of us in this country actually have to go through that, and therefore do not know what it is like. Before championing new discriminations targeting the obese, try to put yourself in their shoes and actually understand what they are going through. Anything short of that is a failure to comprehend the complexity of this issue.
Does this difficulty excuse the fact that the same people are raising their children the same way?
Why would they not rasie them with a different lifestyle that they wouldn't have to change later?
I hear people comparing obese people to smokers, and junkies, but the thing we forget when we make these comparisons is that you NEED to eat, you NEED food to survive.
When people become disabled, due to their own negligence, like get TBI from driving too fast on a motorcycle, or are blind from a failed suicide attempt, we don't just kick those folks to the curb....and tell them it is their own fault they are disabled....no, we treat them the same as anyone else with a disabilty.
Now, obesity is not a disabling condition, but where is the compassion? None. We blame the obese for their own obesity. We don't see beyond....they need to just stop eating so much.
Obesity should be viewed as a mental health issue. And these folks need treatment to get better. No one wants to be obese. There are psychological issues that cause over eating.
So are more people mentally ill than they were 30 years ago? I don't think so. It is not primarily a psychological condition. It is a math problem. Too many people consume more calories than they use every day. And the problem is on both sides of the equation: too many calories consumed and too few calories expended.
Blame it on high fructose corn syrup, bacon, additives, hormones, SUVs, lack of mass transit, suburbs, etc.
But it is all fixable without government intervention.
If someone drinks two sugar sodas a day, that is 2000 calories per week or 100,000 calories per year. That is 30 lbs of bodyweight at 3500 calories per lb. Guess how many lbs in a year a candy bar a day is worth? One Snickers bar a day is worth (271*7*52)/3500 = 28 lbs.
These are examples of small adjustments people can make to lose weight or reduce weight gain.
It is myopic to say that obese people don't impact others as smokers do. The best example is airline seats. But a way more impactful one is health insurance costs. Obese people have more heart disease, more joint problems, more of everything bad healthwise and it drives up insurance costs for everyone.
I think two thing can be done concerning obesity:
1. eliminate all messages that suggest it is OK to be obese. It is not OK. I don't care if a clothing store promotes beauty in plus sizes. But I don't care for social advocacy that says "love your body even if it is huge."
2. obese people should bear financial responsibility for their lifestyle choices. Higher health insurance premiums, pay by the weight for travel, etc.
OMG, I can't believe this thread; there are so many things some people choose to overlook or they know nothing about:
1-years ago we didn't have processed foods with added everything plus sugar added to even salad dressings, like today.
2-kids walked or rode their bikes bacause families had only 1 car, today most kids hardly touch their bikes. Families have 2 or more cars, mommies work outside the home and kids depend on childcare, after school programs and the school bus to get them from point A to B. We also live in the computer world.
3-fast food restaurants are not an occassional treat, but a weekly or daily venture for many families.
4-some people do have wieight problems due to deseases, some due to laziness and some just plain over eating or eating the wrong foods
5-what is an acceptable weight today and what was 50 years ago is very different. yes, people die or become ill because of excess weigh, but people used to die of illnesses we no longer have to worry about, so one thing replaces another.
6-people who say, the fat people are all raising fat kids: BULL. My own daughter, who has fought her weight all her life as has her husband have raised 2 girls who are very much within normal wieght raging and have never had problems. parents today know a fat baby isn't a healthy baby. We were told the opposite.
6-studies have been done that indicate there are genes that are genetic and can affect peoples weight.
So, to think there should be anything like a fat tax or a skinny one for that matter is totally crazy and I don't want the government telling me what I can and can not eat or drink. Next thing we know, the liberals and/or the holier than thou group will try and tell us there should be taxes on everything but vegetables and fruit. But wait, some of them are not healthy either.
People want to push their ideas down everyone's thoats. They claim my over weight body is costing them money, what about the lazy slob who doesn't want to get a job, his/her laziness is costing me money. This goes for the mom with 3 illigitament kids: they cost me money as well.
BTW, my kids and grandkids do not have weight problems, my oldest daughter works very hard to keep herself in good condition, so does her husband. Am I overweight? yes, I am also twice the age of many of you and have no serious health problems.
Its called tough love, telling someone that "they are fine as they are" will not motivate them to lose the weight, would you tell an drug addict that they are "fine as they are"?
But berating them and insulting them will work a lot better I see. I've said it before and I said it again, You cannot control the actions of other people. This holy crusade against fat people through shame and ridicule will ironically enough will cause them to feel worse about themselves and gain more weight.
All this energy and hatred you have towards fat people can be directed at societies criminals. Murderers, rapists, pedophiles.
OMG, I can't believe this thread; there are so many things some people choose to overlook or they know nothing about:
1-years ago we didn't have processed foods with added everything plus sugar added to even salad dressings, like today.
2-kids walked or rode their bikes bacause families had only 1 car, today most kids hardly touch their bikes. Families have 2 or more cars, mommies work outside the home and kids depend on childcare, after school programs and the school bus to get them from point A to B. We also live in the computer world.
3-fast food restaurants are not an occassional treat, but a weekly or daily venture for many families.
4-some people do have wieight problems due to deseases, some due to laziness and some just plain over eating or eating the wrong foods
5-what is an acceptable weight today and what was 50 years ago is very different. yes, people die or become ill because of excess weigh, but people used to die of illnesses we no longer have to worry about, so one thing replaces another.
6-people who say, the fat people are all raising fat kids: BULL. My own daughter, who has fought her weight all her life as has her husband have raised 2 girls who are very much within normal wieght raging and have never had problems. parents today know a fat baby isn't a healthy baby. We were told the opposite.
6-studies have been done that indicate there are genes that are genetic and can affect peoples weight.
So, to think there should be anything like a fat tax or a skinny one for that matter is totally crazy and I don't want the government telling me what I can and can not eat or drink. Next thing we know, the liberals and/or the holier than thou group will try and tell us there should be taxes on everything but vegetables and fruit. But wait, some of them are not healthy either.
People want to push their ideas down everyone's thoats. They claim my over weight body is costing them money, what about the lazy slob who doesn't want to get a job, his/her laziness is costing me money. This goes for the mom with 3 illigitament kids: they cost me money as well.
BTW, my kids and grandkids do not have weight problems, my oldest daughter works very hard to keep herself in good condition, so does her husband. Am I overweight? yes, I am also twice the age of many of you and have no serious health problems.
Nita
#1 - don't choose these foods. It is easy to do so.
#2 - my kids are addicted to video games too. But they also were active in some kind of sport throughout K-12. Not hard to do.
#3 - your choice.
#4 - only a very small percentage of obese people have a physiological reason, such as a thyroid problem, for it. The rest of it is as you say - overeating.
#5 - obesity now exceeds smoking as the leading cause of death in the US. Just because fewer people die of mumps now doesn't mean obesity is OK.
#6 - good.
#7 - is there a fat gene? Maybe, maybe not. But I don't think the human species has evolved much in the last 30-50 years when people were thinner. If the gene exists, it existed 50 years ago too.
I don't think the government should tell you or me what to eat. But if you choose to consume more medical care than me, or need a wider seat in an airplane, you should pay for it.
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