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All this skirting around the real issue- avoidance at it's grandest- YOU NEED universal health care in America- We in Canada have had it for decades and it has not killed our economy or destroyed our nation. Sure it is hard to manage- and yes it is extremely expensive, but it works.
Your middle class in part is being destroyed by NOT having real health care for all. When an old lady or man loses their home due to medical debt- There is no inheritance for the next generation...The money has been stolen from the heir..This heir now can NOT buy a house..can not be middle class- You guys down in the states are cutting your own throats because you grant to much respect to the rich and powerful who are destroying their own base by being greedy.
It's not about socialism..it's about maintaining the herd...a healthy strong herd...If American people were cattle on a lucrative ranch- the cattle would have a vet....You must take care of what generates wealth- the people.
That makes it single payer. It is why you'd see $458 billion in Medicare payments put on government's ledger for 2010.
no, there is a huge difference between government paying your medical bills, and government contracting out to a private entity who then decides what should be covered and what isnt. The $458B in medicare payments is unrelated to actual cost of medical treatments. It could cost $500B, and private industries lost $42B, or it could cost $400B, and private entities made $58B. The cost under a single payer system has a direct relationship to healthcare costs, but again, thats not what we have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
Health care decisions have nothing to do with single payer versus not. As the definition, you agree at times and disagree otherwise, spells out, providing care is largely private.
Then why do you keep bringing it up? Again, we're discussing PAYMENTS..
I wouldn't know about the VA system since you seem to know more about it than I do. I did use them for a number of years for prescriptions but found that I could do it cheaper through private companies and Medicare.
Oh well, when you decide what this thread is about let me know and I may get back in.
You should know what this topic is about.
As for VA, it is socialized medicine and here is something worth considering:
no, there is a huge difference between government paying your medical bills, and government contracting out to a private entity who then decides what should be covered and what isnt.
no, there is a huge difference between government paying your medical bills, and government contracting out to a private entity who then decides what should be covered and what isnt.
NOT when you're considering "single payer". It is about how funds are generated and paid, not how health care decisions are made.
Quote:
Again, we're discussing PAYMENTS..
Yes we are. Why are you bringing up who provides health care?
You know, you don't seem to learn fast, but you do provide opportunities to restate points. I suppose people my start to suspect you of being a sockpuppet of mine for the easy setups you provide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero
a singlepayer (total government program) would cost at least 3 trillion to as much as 6-8 trillion EVERY YEAR and wouold CONSTANTLY increase with inflation
that money would be paid for by the taxpayers....currently there are about 120 million FILERS...of those 120 million filers, nearly 49% pay NOTHING....bu=t we will use 120 million just for arguement sake......3 trillion divided by 120 million...is 25,000...so the 6 trillion is 50,000
thats a 25,000-50,000 dollar tax bill to EACH TAXPAYER.....can you afford that?????
Lets take a slightly more coherent look at what the costs of UHC would be in America. Now with punctuation:
Today, government health care in America includes Medicare, Medicaid, the Children's Health Insurance Program, VA, IH, etc. With their bureaucracies. For which the American tax payer pays -not surprisingly, more than the average European tax payer does for their single government program and its one set of bureaucrats.
Public spending is bigger per person in the USA! Not just private spending, both of them!
We can get annual health care costs for each age group from Health Services Research: Health Serv Res. 2004 June; 39(3): 627–642 via PubMed:
Total 777 billion, out of which Medicare, already government paid, make up about 1 /3. Cost per person, 2775 $ per person per year.
All these numbers are from the year 2000, the latest ones I could find. Looking at spending in 2000:
America was spending 4500 per person, the rest of the western world roughly 2 500. In 2010 the US spendt 8000 per person. At a similar rise in costs, todays costs would be 5 000 per person. Of course, the current US system drives a faster cost rise than other nations, so we'd more likly be looking at a lower sum.
Worst case scenario then is 1,4 trillion health care costs for single payer.
Today, America spends an estimated 2,8 trillion. 1,4 trillion spent by the government, 1,4 trillion privately.
The simple version of the above is that the efficiency savings in not running a dozen separate government health care programs is sufficient to extend one of the programs to cover everyone.
This should be intuitively obvious, since it is how every other developed nation does it.
It's easy. Remove geographical restrictions on all insurance. Prices are based on their previous payouts (Loss Ratio). The larger the "sample group" the more likely payouts are lower per policy holder. NYC, Detroit and Baltimore have terrible murder rates. Spread that around the whole country and the per person (capita) numbers go down.
I wouldn't know about the VA system since you seem to know more about it than I do. I did use them for a number of years for prescriptions but found that I could do it cheaper through private companies and Medicare.
Oh well, when you decide what this thread is about let me know and I may get back in.
Unless you hit the donut hole with medicare part D. If so you'd be using VA in a flash.
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