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Old 06-18-2012, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Florida -
10,213 posts, read 14,836,946 times
Reputation: 21848

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Quote:
Originally Posted by skoro View Post
All of the billions of tax dollars spent across the USA for the past two decades on high-stakes standardized testing has revealed the following incontrovertible truth:

All schools perform as well as the demographic they serve.

Which is exactly what we all knew before all that money was sent off to testing companies rather than spent on textbooks, lab supplies, repairing leaky roofs, replacing broken plumbing, etc.

My district has a few low-performing schools. And there have been massive forced turnover in the faculties of some. The results haven't improved.

Conclusion: schools in poor neighborhoods are going to be populated by the children of poorly educated, apathetic parents who in many cases don't even speak English. Schools in better neighborhoods with better educated, motivated parents will tend to outscore those poor schools.

But by all means, use this as a justification to slag on the schools and teachers. Must be their fault.
Before carrying this 'Parent-Trigger takeover' thing too far, one wonders if there is any evidence that such a thing works! --- Parents always tend to blame the school and teachers for failure, and there is probably some logic to that, but, as pointed out, "All schools tend to perform as well as the demographic they serve." Have the same "poorly educated, apathetic parents" suddenly discovered a voice and an ability to do a better job with the schools? There are all kinds of plans to resolve the socio-economic apathy (and parent unavailability) problems (eg; vouchers, bussing plans, etc. ... all designed to get kids out of poor neighborhoods) -- but, not much evidence that these work either.

The article has a great deal to say about Teacher's Unions, but, at least in Florida, Teacher's Unions have very little real clout or control. They can't go on strike ... and must pretty much settle for whatever salary/benefit packages they are allocated ... and teach whatever curriculum they are given. The one area where Teacher's Unions do have some control is in preventing the firing of incompetent, ineffective teachers for 3-4 years (after the termination process is started). This probably produces the greatest problems in poor performing schools! As a Principal, it took my wife almost 5-years to finally get rid of 4-5 teachers who had never been effective and should have been 'let go' years before.

No amount of legislation or political pandering will work --- until parents stop abrogating their parental responsibilities for child-rearing, education and a host of other difficult tasks. With education, for example, somebody must take responsibility for getting the kids to school ... on time; ... and also for reviewing their work, reading to them and taking an interest at home in the education of their own children. If education is not considered 'important' in the home, there is very little liklihood that the kids will consider it important.
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,286,152 times
Reputation: 11416
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomAndLiberty View Post
I think its a great idea for private companies to take over especially if they can hold whoever they hire to teach accountable. If they don't teach and get test scores to rise they get fired...gives them incentive to get the job done correctly.
Might want to look at some studies where schools were privatized.
Not always so good.
Research Center: Privatization of Public Education

Test scores are not the be all and end all of education.
Anyone can regurgitate data if that's all they're learning.
I prefer teaching critical thinking skills than simply teaching to tests.
Critical thinking is a life skill that many people do not possess.

You must have loved no child left behind.
What a wild success that has been.
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Old 06-18-2012, 02:27 PM
 
92 posts, read 56,769 times
Reputation: 41
NCLB was idiotic and never worked. I was discussing this with my mother earlier who is a teacher. The problem I see is the teacher unions have to much power to keep bad teachers in jobs even though the students they are teaching aren't learning.
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Old 06-18-2012, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
14,100 posts, read 28,534,474 times
Reputation: 8075
The school system could save plenty of money by eliminating multiple school administrators such as the many vice-principals each school now has on staff. When I was in school we had a principal and one vice-principal. Some schools have 6 or more vice-principals. Abolish tenure and make it easier to fire bad teachers, especially those who have sexual relations with their students. Transfer some of that money savings towards school maintenance budget. Eliminate worthless electives and courses. Grades K-3 are the best times to hold students back until they catch up to their peers.
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Old 06-18-2012, 03:39 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,867,563 times
Reputation: 18304
In Texas the state authority will take control over school districts by monitor that clear everything.Often the porblem start at the top administration levels ;so princiapls ahve vested interest i syytem itself .Nothigbeats parents that are involved or taxpayers acting thru authorities. Too mnanyex-teachers with same vested interest i status quo on scholos boards IMO also.
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Old 06-18-2012, 03:51 PM
 
Location: California
37,135 posts, read 42,222,200 times
Reputation: 35014
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomAndLiberty View Post
I think its a great idea for private companies to take over especially if they can hold whoever they hire to teach accountable. If they don't teach and get test scores to rise they get fired...gives them incentive to get the job done correctly.
You can teach intelligent kids to do this. Unfortunately some of our schools are full of less than...through no fault of the teacher who you would have fired.
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Old 06-18-2012, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,481 posts, read 10,224,629 times
Reputation: 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savoir Faire View Post
Wanna bet that many of the worst performing schools have many parents who don't care. Always blame the teachers but never the parents or students

Firing crappy teachers and administrators is a start, but it's not enough
The union protects teachers from being fired. And this article promotes private companies to manage schools if the parents seize them. So you are supporting taking union power away from the union while promoting private management of a public school..... who took over your mind?
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Old 06-18-2012, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Land of debt and Corruption
7,545 posts, read 8,328,091 times
Reputation: 2889
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet View Post
The union protects teachers from being fired. And this article promotes private companies to manage schools if the parents seize them. So you are supporting taking union power away from the union while promoting private management of a public school..... who took over your mind?
I was thinking the exact same thing. No democrat/liberal ever agrees with taking power away from the unions!
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